[12:01:21] Lyude   Hey everyone, time for rolecall! anholt, alyssa, danvet, mdnavare, mfilion, rg3igalia, samuelig 
[12:01:25] samuelig \o/
[12:01:29] danvet   around-ish
[12:01:40] mfilion  o/
[12:03:07] rg3igalia    On mobile but here
[12:03:31] Lyude    So the agenda for today: XDC2022/2023, GSoC, Elections, and matrix (no updates on that though). let me know if I'm missing anything
[12:03:55] mfilion  can we add mailing list issue?
[12:03:58] Lyude    samuelig/ rg3igalia (since I think I saw you sending out RFCs?) : do you want to go over XDC stuff?
[12:04:00] Lyude    mfilion: sure thing
[12:04:01] →  alyssa-igloo (~igloo@7.sub-174-194-133.myvzw.com) has joined #xf-bod
[12:04:07] samuelig yup
[12:04:21] alyssa-igloo Stupid mobile client is stupid. Sorry. Here intermittently
[12:04:25] samuelig XDC 2022: still waiting for reimbursement (maybe anholt can comment better)
[12:04:30] Lyude    alyssa-igloo: np!
[12:05:09] samuelig XDC 2023: we sent email opening the registration and CfP. Website is in place and dns redirection too. We need to fix sponsorbox (/cc daniels mupuf)
[12:05:16] samuelig but we are fine
[12:05:43] alyssa-igloo Thanks samuelig !
[12:05:49] samuelig regarding XDC 2024: we have not sent the RfP email... should I send it as my last duty? Or will be done by my replacement?
[12:06:17] Lyude    samuelig: that's totally up to you, I'm sure we'd appreciate it if you could do that :)
[12:06:26] alyssa-igloo was PEI still on the table for that ?
[12:06:32] samuelig alyssa-igloo, yup
[12:06:57] danvet   alyssa-igloo, I thought mfilion had the 99% sure bid lined up already?
[12:07:27] samuelig but I guess we prefer to listen to other more community related proposals, like the one mfilion found
[12:08:05] Lyude    samuelig: that's all from your side I assume btw?
[12:08:13] mfilion  actually a few possibilities now for 2024, need to follow up with them
[12:08:24] samuelig Lyude, yup.
[12:08:30] mdnavare Hi All
[12:08:37] samuelig Lyude, I will send the RfP then
[12:08:53] Lyude    samuelig: sgtm, thank you for all of your work over your tenure!
[12:08:55] Lyude    hey mdnavare!
[12:09:16] Lyude    Alright, next is GSoC. tlwoerner any chance you're around/want to give an update?
[12:09:22] samuelig :)
[12:10:53] ←  secretary (~secretary@pool-96-230-190-232.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) has quit (Ping timeout: 480 seconds)
[12:11:05] alyssa-igloo Uh oh
[12:11:21] mdnavare Did we lose the secretary?
[12:11:26] Lyude    !?
[12:11:30] mfilion  come back secretary, come back
[12:11:59] Lyude    that's strange haha, uh, gimme one second to brb and then I will take a look
[12:12:12] rg3igalia    The ping timeout means secretary wasn't even listening :)
[12:12:33] Lyude    worse comes to worse I always have my own irc log :P
[12:14:56]  *   Lyude going to kill/restart the bod script real quick, since iirc that's the easiest way to fix this
[12:16:14] →  samuelig_ (~Palaver@cm-81-9-194-81.telecable.es) has joined #xf-bod
[12:16:35] --   Lyude has changed topic for #xf-bod from "Next Meeting: May 03, 04:00 pm UTC https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?iso=20230503T19&p1=1440" to ""Next Meeting: Apr 19, 04:00 pm UTC https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?iso=20230419T19&p1=1440""
[12:16:41] --   Lyude has changed topic for #xf-bod from ""Next Meeting: Apr 19, 04:00 pm UTC https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?iso=20230419T19&p1=1440"" to "Next Meeting: Apr 19, 04:00 pm UTC https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?iso=20230419T19&p1=1440"
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[12:16:54] secretary    secretary reporting in
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[12:16:54] [connected at Wed Apr 19 12:16:54 2023]
[12:16:54] [I have joined #xf-bod]
[12:17:08] <Lyude> ok :), and I'll just patch up the IRC logs myself afterwards
[12:17:52] <Lyude> Anyway - no tlwoerner for the time being, that just leaves elections and mailing list issues. rg3igalia, update on the former?
[12:18:18] <rg3igalia> The voting will start on Monday
[12:18:47] <mfilion> Our biggest election to date, with 8 candidates!
[12:19:08] <samuelig_> Really?
[12:19:09] <rg3igalia> Due to the mailing list issue I decided to allow one more week for membership, after polling the elections committee
[12:19:28] <mfilion> samuelig_ yeah, we've never had that many before
[12:19:37] <samuelig_> Nice!
[12:19:41] <Lyude> I wonder what the big jump in candidates is from
[12:19:49] <rg3igalia> But also there were concerns with further delays, so the elections will last one week to end on the agreed date
[12:19:52] <Lyude> but I'm not complaining :), would be good to have some people be able to take on some responsibilities
[12:20:05] <mfilion> samuelig_ 6 in 2022, 7 in 2021, 6 in 2020, 6 in 2019, 6 in 2018, 5 in 2017, 5 in 2016, 6 in 2015, 3 in 2014, 4 in 2013...
[12:20:06] <rg3igalia> Hope it turns out ok
[12:20:32] <mdnavare> Yea thats a big election!
[12:20:52] <mdnavare> wow biggest so far looks like
[12:21:09] <Lyude> btw, I assume that's all for election updates?
[12:21:23] <rg3igalia> Yes, unless someone has any questions
[12:21:24] <mdnavare> Are the emails out for the election vote reminders?
[12:21:43] <rg3igalia> Which reminders?
[12:22:03] <rg3igalia> Reminders will be sent during next week, unless I'm misunderstanding
[12:23:06] <Lyude> mfilion: did you want to go into the mailing list issues btw?
[12:23:42] <mfilion> before I do - somewhat related to the election, but I was wondering if we should discuss that YouTube video?
[12:23:51] <samuelig> Lyude, talk about twitter account and moving to mastodon as well? Lyude I forgot to mention that I will create a mastodon account for XDC
[12:24:33] <samuelig> in the same instance than X.Org's
[12:25:07] <mfilion> samuelig nice. our account request was approved, I just need to update it and "officially" launch it. On my to-do this week.
[12:25:47] <samuelig> I was not aware of the changes in twitter that were mentioned before the meeting, so yeah, I think we should move to mastodon 
[12:26:16] <Lyude> mfilion: I thought I saw you post it but I'm having trouble finding the link in my scrollback for some reason, mind linking to the video again?
[12:26:44] <Lyude> samuelig: yeah very much agreed, to be honest too the kind of people we're appealing to for the most part aren't really going to be twitter exclusives
[12:26:56] <mfilion> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWzhrMBN9fo
[12:27:04] <Lyude> thanks!
[12:27:11] <samuelig> Lyude, agreed
[12:27:37] <mfilion> 35K views, so shouldn't be ignored
[12:27:37] <alyssa-igloo> I haven't seen this
[12:27:47] <Lyude> mfilion: ._. uh. yeah this is a weird video
[12:27:47] * rg3igalia has to remember to watch it in full
[12:28:28] <mfilion> It also highlights the need for us to revisit rebranding the foundation, and this video makes it sound like we only take care of x11 and nothign else
[12:28:35] <Lyude> "has a bit of a serious problem, there are simply not enough people who want to run for the board" i mean. if it's a serious problem, it's also one we've had since I joined the board and we seem to be doing pretty alright?
[12:28:43] <Lyude> but yeah, definitely agree
[12:28:52] <mfilion> In any case, they mentioned they might talk about X.Org again after the election, so maybe we wait to see what's said afterwards, and address it then?
[12:28:54] <rg3igalia> We could reach out after the elections, I think it's better to engage than to ignore, and inform people
[12:28:56] <samuelig> well, we have 8 candidates... the biggest ever.... not bad
[12:29:54] <Lyude> mfilion: mh, maybe. I wonder if we should also point out to them that it's kinda par for the course with volunteer foundations. you run into slopes of having difficulty finding candidates, then you mention that somewhere publically and a bunch of candidates come or we manage to nag a couple people into running, etc.
[12:30:08] <Lyude> it's definitely also a branding problem though, yeah
[12:30:15] <mfilion> yeah agreed on both
[12:30:26] <mfilion> I was just wondering when to point this all out, and how
[12:30:31] <Lyude> I would worry that people aren't terribly interested in running something X11 themed vs. what we really do for the most part: which is p much everything in the desktop sphere
[12:30:32] <samuelig> mfilion, I think the branding thing has a point. probably we need to see if there is a better name, now that we are the umbrella of many different projects. Maybe Freedesktop Foundation makes more sense.
[12:30:46] <mfilion> so maybe after the elections are done we can discuss it further?
[12:30:53] <alyssa> samuelig: we've been talking about rebranding to fd.o for a long time, I'm in full favour wiw
[12:31:11] <samuelig> alyssa, and fixes the domain issue as well :)
[12:31:13] <alyssa> I've been on the board a year and I still don't know what the difference between x.org foundation and fd.o is (-:
[12:31:15] <mfilion> we'll for sure have at least one new person on the board after the election so that will bring some new insights
[12:31:23] <Lyude> we should still make sure we have the domain though tbh
[12:31:34] <mfilion> indeed
[12:31:36] <Lyude> or someone else is going to park it if we ever lose it and we are kinda unlikely to get it back being a single letter domain
[12:32:42] <mfilion> what do you mean park it?
[12:32:47] <Lyude> I guess yeah, we can discuss after the election unless anyone else has anything to say about it
[12:32:48] <alyssa> (Did we resolve the twitter thing I think I missed)
[12:32:53] <mfilion> its currently registered to x.org until 2025?
[12:33:11] <samuelig> alyssa, I think we need to wait first to mfilion to announce the mastodon one
[12:33:34] <samuelig> and then we can discuss it internally in the ML or in the next meeting
[12:33:49] <alyssa> OK
[12:33:51] <Lyude> mfilion: yeah-I just talk about it as a little more pressing since, well, eventually it'll roll around to 2025 and if we keep pushing it off we'll have what happened last time :P. but yeah, my thought is if the person who was keeping it registered atm stopped paying for it, which wouldn't be so much of a problem if we're in control of it, it could very possibly get parked on by a
[12:33:53] <Lyude> domain registrar for auctioning
[12:34:37] <mfilion> ahh ok. then yes we should make it a priority to sort out
[12:34:46] <rg3igalia> Can it go on auction or would it be permanently lost due to .org rules?
[12:34:50] <anholt> Lyude: my understanding is that transfer is not possible since single-letter is just grandfathered into the system.  still, would be good to sort out.
[12:35:01] <Lyude> anholt: interesting
[12:35:04] <Lyude> rg3igalia: I'm not totally sure
[12:35:07] <samuelig> yeah, I was thinking the same than rg3igalia. It will be lost as one letter domains usually are protected
[12:35:11] <mfilion> yes indeed single letter domains can't be purchased anymore
[12:35:26] <Lyude> woah, collector's domain name huh
[12:35:36] <anholt> like, we're going to need some manual intervention to get it moved to us even.
[12:36:16] <Lyude> anyway, mfilion: do we want to go into the ML issues?
[12:36:17] <mfilion> @lyude like I said earlier today, there's only six...  q.com, q.net, i.net, z.com, x.com, & x.org
[12:36:26] <mfilion> yes please!
[12:36:40] <mfilion> how do we avoid the issues again that were pointed out by members this week?
[12:37:00] <mfilion> apparently lots of emails got stuck on gabe.freedesktop.org?
[12:37:20] <rg3igalia> First off is mentioning that in the process wiki, which i forgot to do but will do ASAP
[12:37:46] <samuelig> mfilion, in the past, I was reviewing several MLs' moderation pages and approving/discarding them. I stopped doing so as I was fully overloaded
[12:37:56] <Lyude> mfilion: sigh, apparently so.
[12:38:22] <samuelig> I think we should have either something automatic or have somebody in charge of it as another task. Also, I prefer to have somebody we trust in that case.
[12:38:46] <emersion> MrCooper and I are monitoring a few MLsa
[12:38:48] <emersion> MLs*
[12:38:53] <emersion> dri-devel, wayland-devel…
[12:38:59] <Lyude> yeah I try to address that stuff whenever it comes up on my email but every now and then I might be focused enough on work I might not notice. although I thought most of the emails I saw regarding moderation this time were about our own board@, not member lists
[12:39:15] <Lyude> so I guess maybe I'm not on the admin list for affected boards?
[12:39:33] <mfilion> good to know emersion, thank you. 
[12:39:34] <emersion> do we have a list of affected MLs?
[12:39:35] <mfilion> so who monitors members@?
[12:40:05] <emersion> alexdeucher@gmail.com, eric@anholt.net
[12:40:17] <emersion> can add more, just tell me
[12:40:23] <Lyude> feel free to add me
[12:40:43] <rg3igalia> I have to drop off from the meeting 👋
[12:40:44] <emersion> <lyude@redhat.com>?
[12:40:46] <Lyude> I guess we could do most of the board folks if people would be ok with that? but then I know some of y'all just mentioned getting a bit overwhelmed from it
[12:40:48] <mfilion> oh and one that seems to have gotten stuck too was events@
[12:40:48] <Lyude> emersion: yep!
[12:40:52] <Lyude> rg3igalia: see ya!
[12:41:00] <emersion> done!
[12:41:13] <mfilion> @lyude I was going to say, maybe just add board@ for the main mailing lists? Or is that not possible?
[12:41:34] <mfilion> like members@, events@, those could be moderated by the board?
[12:41:44] <mfilion> or do mods need to be individual emails?
[12:41:52] <Lyude> mfilion: I mean we're usually sending emails from our own emails so I don't know how that would work, I think the other problem might be that mailman starts complaining when you have X number of people on To:
[12:42:08] <mfilion> ahh right
[12:42:20] <Lyude> Actually now that I think about it, I think I remember explicitly having to send emails for elections to only a few ML addresses at a time
[12:42:29] <Lyude> how were they sent out this time?
[12:42:30] <samuelig> well, we will get a fair amount of traffic in board... I prefer to have a separate ML for that like: ml-moderation@.... with the board subscribed
[12:42:31] <mfilion> when I did XDC in 2019 I sent individual emails to avoid that
[12:42:44] <samuelig> board members*
[12:42:44] <mfilion> @lyude they were all sent in one email... :(
[12:43:09] <Lyude> alright, yeah that's probably what happened. sigh, I must have forgotten to update the process with that info
[12:43:16] <mfilion> which is why when Laurent replied about the problem, his reply went to 13 mailing lists
[12:43:38] <Lyude> still though, emersion do you know if there's any way we could solve that as well? it's kinda painful having to send to so many mailing lists iirc
[12:43:55] <Lyude> if not maybe this would be a good time for someone to put together a script to automate doing this correctly
[12:44:10] <emersion> yeah it's super annoying to go and check each and every ML
[12:44:19] <mfilion> haha I can imagine
[12:44:35] * alyssa has to run
[12:44:39] <Lyude> see you later!
[12:44:43] <alyssa> cheers
[12:45:09] <mfilion> so maybe we clarify the communication process, and make sure the mailing lists have up-to-date mods on them?
[12:45:29] <emersion> hm i don't really understand why writing to many MLs would be an issue
[12:45:44] <Lyude> emersion: iirc I think the complaint mailman gives is "too many receipients in the To: field" or something like that
[12:46:02] <emersion> ah, then it's just a setting probably
[12:46:07] <emersion> let's see
[12:46:24] <samuelig> it is, that's why I went through all ml that blocked it (not all have that setting enabled, btw) and accept the email
[12:47:25] <emersion> "Ceiling on acceptable number of recipients for a posting"
[12:47:39] <emersion> in Privacy options > Recipient filters
[12:47:59] <emersion> dri-devel has 100
[12:48:07] <emersion> the default seems to be 10
[12:48:51] <Lyude> btw - since this is p much the end of the meeting people can leave if they need to
[12:49:13] <Lyude> emersion: I guess we should just set 100 on all the major MLs then or just set it as the default
[12:49:32] <Lyude> I don't know if I've ever actually seen that option really catch spam anyway, most spam nowadays just has a single address in the To:
[12:51:17] <Lyude> mfilion: btw just a comment from going through the comments section on that video (the most heinous of internet crimes…) - yeah it seems like a lot of people don't really follow what the X.org foundation does :s
[12:52:03] <mfilion> Yep...
[12:52:50] <Lyude> half of the comments are "well wayland isn't ready yet" (also, ???? would love to know things people are still missing). so yeah, we definitely gotta get started on rebranding stuff post-election
[12:53:30] <mfilion> Poor Wayland, so misunderstood hihi
[12:53:34] <Lyude> and also maybe be careful when doing that to also ensure at the same time we clarify "the developers of X.org are not related to the board directors of x.org in the way you think they are"
[12:53:54] <Lyude> since like, we're x.org developers, but I don't think who's on the board really makes much of a difference with it's development :P
[12:54:22] <mfilion> and I'm not even a developer lol
[12:56:09] <Lyude> anyway, gonna continue my morning now since it's post meeting, will finish up the summary and such when I get back as per-usual. emersion let me know if you need anything
[12:56:21] <mfilion> yep same. thanks for looking into the issue emersion
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