[12:02:39] [connected at Wed Nov 16 12:02:39 2022]
[12:02:39] [I have joined #xf-bod]
[12:02:57] <alyssa> (I am here, just joking)\
[12:04:25] <rg3igalia> I'm here
[12:04:35] <Lyude> Hey everyone! Time for role call: so far I've got alyssa samuelig danvet and rg3igalia 
[12:06:00] <Lyude> mfilion, mdnavare  - feel free to poke if y'all join in later (or not, totally understandable with the DST mixup 😳
[12:06:41] * danvet waves
[12:07:22] <Lyude> Agenda for today: XDC2022/3, SFC stuff, EVoC (I think), matrix and not-twitter
[12:07:35] <Lyude> samuelig: do you want to start with XDC stuff?
[12:07:44] <samuelig> yes
[12:08:37] <samuelig> XDC 2022: no news. We need to ask for the budget to reimburse money, if I am not wrong
[12:08:52] <samuelig> I mean, ask for expenses
[12:09:13] <samuelig> so they can be deducted from platinum sponsorship
[12:09:39] <Lyude> samuelig: for Codeweavers you mean?
[12:09:43] <samuelig> yup
[12:10:37] <samuelig> XDC 2023: we got one formal proposal for XDC 2023, but not in Europe. As I mentioned some days ago, Igalia is about to send a proposal in Europe, still waiting for the venue to give us an accurate budget, once we get that, it will be submitted.
[12:10:44] <samuelig> hopefully this week
[12:11:07] <samuelig> I don't have news from others preparing a proposal.
[12:11:50] <rg3igalia> One small detail regarding XDC 2022, do we need to approve de expenses from Jagan explicitly after the email discussion?
[12:11:56] <Lyude> (will be back in one sec)
[12:12:11] <samuelig> rg3igalia, yes, we need.
[12:12:18] <samuelig> we will talk about it in a sec
[12:12:20] <samuelig> Regarding the proposal we got, we need time to review, so probably we can schedule an agenda item in next board of directors meeting to discuss it.
[12:13:00] <samuelig> Now, travel expenses, as Ricardo was saying we had one from Jagan. We can vote it here or via email if you don't want to disclose the amount for privacy reasons
[12:13:19] <samuelig> I prefer to do email vote
[12:13:38] <alyssa> email vote is ok
[12:13:49] <rg3igalia> Me too, I can send my vote once I'm in front of my comp
[12:14:27] * anholt here now
[12:14:44] <alyssa> anholt: welcome
[12:14:56] <danvet> samuelig, did we figure out the opens on that? I'm still a bit confused
[12:15:04] <danvet> just to make sure we all agree on what we even vote about
[12:15:16] <Lyude> Back
[12:15:28] <danvet> samuelig, maybe if you could summarize what we include and what's dropped in a board@ private mail?
[12:15:39] <samuelig> I prefer to do it in a private email
[12:15:44] <danvet> it's all a rather decent mess :-/
[12:15:47] <samuelig> right
[12:15:54] <danvet> yeah not here
[12:16:19] <anholt> I don't remember looping the whole board in on reimbursements in previous years.  but it's been a while since doing physical travel reimbursements.
[12:16:38] <danvet> anholt, in the past the recipes matched the requests more or less
[12:16:52] <danvet> so covered with the preapproval
[12:16:54] <danvet> this one is a bit different
[12:17:09] <Lyude> Also anholt should I assume that you'll be asking about the codeweavers expenses that samuelig mentioned earlier?
[12:17:18] <danvet> iirc we had one a few years back too that needed some adjustements
[12:17:37] * alyssa genuinely doesn't understand that email thread and intends to abstain on the vote out of sheer confusion
[12:17:49] <rg3igalia> I think it's fine now but I can send an email with clarifications and start the vote later
[12:18:00] <danvet> rg3igalia, that would be great I think
[12:18:07] <danvet> i.e. seconded or something
[12:19:15] <Lyude> Next topic is SFC stuff, I actually got through most of the by-law changes and pushed them to a branch
[12:19:30] <Lyude> (goes to get link)
[12:20:26] <alyssa> Lyude: Nice work :)
[12:20:30] <Lyude> https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/lyudess/governance-rules-of-the-x-org-foundation/-/blob/master/bylaws.pdf
[12:20:57] <Lyude> the only thing I haven't done is drop The Act yet because I wasn't sure if we decided on that or not
[12:21:23] <Lyude> but it seems like we have (it's not needed and historical junk we've verified) so I'll do that today at some point
[12:22:36] <danvet> ack on mail vote
[12:22:43] <Lyude> The other question is mainly what do we want to call treasurer/secretary, but I think that's pretty much about it. if everyone wants to look over the changes and let me know if they're OK feel free
[12:22:47] <danvet> uh I got confused on scrollback, sry
[12:23:18] <anholt> Lyude: financial liaison seems fine to me.
[12:23:24] <danvet> Lyude, did you see the latest sfc proposal? they have all the things renamed already, so as long as it matches I think we should be good
[12:23:50] <Lyude> I think that's what I used yesterday to encorporate all the changes so most likely, but I'll double check
[12:24:02] <alyssa> Lyude: goverance repo 404s, could you give me access? thanks :)
[12:24:06] <Lyude> ah right
[12:24:10] <samuelig> Lyude, I think we can vote in next board meeting and review it meanwhile. Or vote via email if that's urgent
[12:24:20] <rg3igalia> Financial liaison also sounds good to me and matches the new role
[12:24:43] <danvet> Lyude, or just push a branch to the main one?
[12:24:50] <danvet> not really anything we're hiding in there ...
[12:25:00] <danvet> that way also sfc can check we got everything easily
[12:25:09] <Lyude> ok try now
[12:25:15] <Lyude> danvet: ah right lol
[12:25:23] <alyssa> no dice
[12:25:31] <rg3igalia> I'll be happy to vote over email once the text is final, BTW
[12:25:54] <danvet> Lyude, also thx a lot for doing this
[12:26:05] <Lyude> https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xorgfoundation/bylaws/-/tree/wip/sfc
[12:26:08] <rg3igalia> What I read so far LGTM
[12:26:11] <Lyude> there we go
[12:26:20] <Lyude> and danvet np
[12:26:38] <danvet> Lyude, maybe do an MR, with that we can do comments more easily I think
[12:26:47] <Lyude> sure thing, will do in just a moment
[12:27:22] <danvet> well can do later so that we can get through the agenda
[12:27:23] <Lyude> next thing is EVoC although I don't think we need to discuss this so much as I just wanted to poke siqueira and tlwoerner: it sounds like karolherbst would like to get a student involved with rusticl work
[12:27:31] <danvet> I need to get back to pear tarte building :-)
[12:27:48] <danvet> yeah on evoc I think we need the proposal and then we approve
[12:28:09] <alyssa> Lyude: the sfconservancy.org link is not clickable in the pdf, mind adding the required \url{} ?
[12:28:12] <alyssa> thanks
[12:28:17] <Lyude> After that: matrix, alyssa brought up that there's been another discord starting that some folks are already using, and to be honest it'd be really good for us to start using something that isn't IRC
[12:28:21] <Lyude> alyssa: gotcha
[12:29:07] <samuelig> I'm happy with IRC. If it is not IRC, I prefer an open-source platform like matrix
[12:29:33] <rg3igalia> Same here
[12:29:38] <Lyude> yeah - I think we'd definitely want some sort of bridge perhaps like what gnome currently has
[12:29:41] <samuelig> or use a IRC bridge in matrix.
[12:29:44] <samuelig> right
[12:29:48] <samuelig> fedora does the same
[12:29:51] <alyssa> samuelig: lot of people are unhappy with IRC (for various reasons) .. replacement seems inevitable tbh
[12:30:01] <alyssa> but yes=ah, open platform is a hard requirement imo
[12:30:14] <samuelig> I am not opposed to that, but I prefer open-source platform. No discord please :)
[12:30:19] <Lyude> tbh my top reason is: I am worried about moderation issues, which IRC is definitely not good at
[12:30:36] <danvet> how much do we need to push this from the board side?
[12:30:43] <danvet> or just encourage volunteers to set up something?
[12:30:57] <danvet> since without more fdo admin volunteers it aint happening
[12:30:58] <alyssa> (matrix, rocket.chat, mattermost, and zulip are in the running)
[12:31:00] <alyssa> all in the running right now
[12:31:08] <Lyude> I would think the latter, or ask SFC if they have any plans for trying to setup hosting for something like this similar to what they'd eventually like to do with hosting other infra
[12:31:15] <anholt> I'm happy with basically whatever with an open platform.
[12:31:18] <anholt> got to run off to next meeting
[12:31:20] <samuelig> good idea, maybe SFC can provide that service
[12:31:22] <Lyude> or instances we might be able to actually just hop onto
[12:31:35] <Lyude> I like what we have with OFTC right now, would be kind of nice if they had a matrix instance as well
[12:31:40] <danvet> samuelig, yeah if we could just get it provided as a service, that would be nice
[12:31:51] <danvet> since it's not a core thing for us like gitlab hosting
[12:32:00] <danvet> iirc zulip does that for foss projects
[12:32:06] <alyssa> danvet: from my perspective it's less about pushing from the board side and more realizing that if ignore this, we'll wake up sometime in 2023 and everybody'll be on discord 
[12:32:23] <danvet> alyssa, rocket.chat was iirc the one that's ridiculously small in the free hosted tier
[12:32:35] <danvet> alyssa, well not me
[12:32:36] <alyssa> given the momentum from volunteers\board is there already... it's something that needs to be minimally be on our radar
[12:32:42] <danvet> still banned in their bot detector
[12:33:06] <alyssa> ~~being frivolously banned from discord is a rite of passage~~
[12:33:10] <danvet> but yeah
[12:33:15] <danvet> I've heard so
[12:33:31] <danvet> Lyude, anything else on the agenda, since we're just chatting here a bit I think
[12:33:33] <Lyude> Anyway - I guess we can start looking into this and people can poke me if they have ideas on who could host it
[12:33:40] <Lyude> danvet: yeah just one last thing, was about to move on to it
[12:33:46] <danvet> yeah just putting it on the minutes is probably good
[12:34:10] <danvet> phoronix should cover it hopefully, if they spot the discord red flag and wave it a bit for clickbait :-)
[12:34:24] <alyssa> danvet: is that a good thing
[12:34:39] <danvet> alyssa, oh just to kick the discussion a bit for what the community wants
[12:34:42] <Lyude> tbh the last agenda item probably doesn't need much voting so you're free to leave early if you want. It's mainly just making sure we have something to have an xorgfoundation twitter-ike account on since twitter is probably dying
[12:34:55] <danvet> for better or worse more members seem to read phoronix than the minutes
[12:35:08] <alyssa> danvet: ahahahaa yes, fair
[12:35:31] <Lyude> samuelig/mfilion, I guess do we have a mastodon or anything like that?
[12:35:39] <danvet> Lyude, is sfc running an mastodon instance for its member projects perhaps?
[12:35:43] <danvet> we could hop on there
[12:35:50] <danvet> since again, fdo admin time is a bit sparse
[12:35:54] <Lyude> danvet: that was one of the things I suggested possibly, I'm not sure if they do but I'll ask
[12:35:56] <danvet> with official project accounts I mean
[12:36:00] <Lyude> and yeah - I definitely don't want fdo people having to host it
[12:36:12] <alyssa> i think karol wanted to a run an fdo instance but idk how serious he was about that lol
[12:36:46] <samuelig> we need to be careful with all the burden we put to our sysadmins for "non-critical" services (I mean, others than gitlab and such)
[12:36:58] <danvet> I think for official accounts we'll have a handful at most (foundation, mesa, wayland maybe)
[12:37:03] <Lyude> samuelig: agreed
[12:37:04] <alyssa> samuelig: +1
[12:37:06] <danvet> and people can just hang wherever
[12:37:16] <Lyude> also, we're not hosting our own IRC instance so it just feels natural to follow suite like that
[12:37:24] <danvet> samuelig, yeah hence why I want this just as a service provide
[12:37:32] <danvet> this = microblog, chat, ...
[12:37:38] <alyssa> conservancy itself is on a dying mastodon instance
[12:37:40] <alyssa> tbd where they go
[12:37:47] <danvet> with the option that we can do it ourselves as an open thing, worst case
[12:37:53] <samuelig> and also, if we pick one of the public instances, be careful. I heard some ban other instances and we need to check which ones and why
[12:37:58] <Lyude> suit? english weird. anyway so we do actually have mastodon accounts danvet ?
[12:38:00] <danvet> alyssa, not sure they moved yet, but yeah that one is dead
[12:38:20] <rg3igalia> Many people are on the gamesdev.place instance, who runs that?
[12:38:25] <danvet> Lyude, suit?
[12:38:56] <Lyude> danvet: yeah I just said follow suit and didn't know which word to use, either way though don't let us keep you here if you have food stuff to do :P
[12:39:08] <danvet> ah ok
[12:39:23] <danvet> and I don't think we have a mastodon foundation account yet anywhere
[12:39:35] <samuelig> AFAIK, we don't
[12:39:35] <danvet> picking the same as sfc might be a good idea, wherever that's going to be
[12:39:42] <alyssa> danvet: +1
[12:39:43] <danvet> since mastodon.technology is dead
[12:39:46] <Lyude> agreed
[12:40:21] <Lyude> I can ask SFC about both things I guess :)
[12:40:25] <danvet> Lyude, so yeah if you can send karen/sfc a mail about this
[12:40:27] <alyssa> we (asahi) are on treehouse.systems but that's more due to a personal trust in the admins than much else
[12:40:32] <danvet> hah
[12:40:37] <Lyude> with that, that's pretty much the end of the meeting
[12:40:52] <danvet> cheers
[12:40:59] <samuelig> thanks!
[12:41:05] <danvet> I'll probably take a pic of the tarte and smash it onto my mastodon or so
[12:41:10] <rg3igalia> Thanks!
[12:41:22] <Lyude> alyssa: tbh that's very valid, I've been pretty surprised how much a lot of these instances seem to underestimate CoC time
[12:41:29] <samuelig> danvet, why you don't create an instance called tarte.social?
[12:41:56] <alyssa> Lyude: for both the IRC and the Twitter discussions ... yeah, moderation is the bigger concern for me than raw technical capabilities
[12:42:05] <Lyude> definitely
[12:44:11] <danvet> samuelig, I want to post pics of baking and food
[12:44:25] <danvet> not pics of crashing servers and "oops the UPS didn't quite work as well as I thought"
[12:51:22] <daniels> Lyude: if someone in our community wants to host a Mastodon/Zulip/Matrix/whatever instance, then I see no reason why we shouldn't pull it under our umbrella and just call them admins?
[15:07:27] <Lyude> daniels: If someone actually wants to do it, sure! I just worry about folks getting themselves burned out or signing themselves up for more then they can handle

[15:15:41] [disconnected at Wed Nov 16 15:15:41 2022]