[15:00:41] [connected at Thu Sep 30 15:00:41 2021]
[15:00:41] [I have joined #xf-bod]
[15:01:39] <mfilion> o/
[15:01:45] * danvet waves
[15:01:47] <Lyude> Hi everyone, time for rollcall: anholt_, danvet, mfilion, mdnavare, keithp, samuelig, hwentlan 
[15:01:52] <anholt_> hi!
[15:02:21] <danvet> Lyude, since you brought up fd.o dinner, should probably have the same for xdc21 on the agenda and finalize the expenses there
[15:02:52] <keithp> I'm "sorta" here today :-)
[15:02:58] <Lyude> danvet: yeah I had XDC2021 invoices on my list still
[15:03:16] <Lyude> 877-CASH-FOR-BENTISS, officer confirmation, X.org/freedesktop.org domain status, requesting ledger data, XDC2021 invoices status, XDC2021, XDC2022, GSoC/Outreachy/EVoC, MIPI Alliance and CSI, do we need to keep track of ledger data?
[15:03:26] <Lyude> (oh oops - I forgot say "that's the agenda for today")
[15:03:33] <samuelig> hi!
[15:04:26] <Lyude> So on 877-CASH-FOR-BENTISS - I totally am in favor of treating bentiss to a nice dinner or the sort
[15:04:49] <samuelig> +1
[15:04:51] <mfilion> +1
[15:04:54] <danvet> +1
[15:05:10] <keithp> +1
[15:05:12] <Lyude> cool! then I guess the question is how would we want to get the money to them? maybe they've got paypal
[15:05:31] <danvet> I guess we just assume he's not going to break the bank but also not "it's for mcdonalds" it
[15:05:58] <danvet> I didn't put in an amount
[15:06:18] <danvet> Lyude, maybe just as an expense, i.e. they spend it, send receipt to spi and spi sorts it out
[15:06:23] <anholt_> (+1)
[15:06:37] <mfilion> where are they located?
[15:06:52] <danvet> i thought france
[15:06:52] <Lyude> yeah. I mean $20 each person (17.28€) would probably get a pretty decent meal
[15:06:55] <Lyude> france yeah
[15:07:03] <Lyude> danvet: yeah that works oto
[15:07:05] <Lyude> *too
[15:07:44] <mfilion> I don't know how things are in France, but my lunch today cost more than $20 lol
[15:07:45] <danvet> needs a bit more than 20€ for good french cuisine
[15:07:53] <danvet> mfilion, yeah :-)
[15:07:58] <Lyude> that's why I said per person :P
[15:08:04] <samuelig> I suggest 30 USD per person (~25 EUR), that is a decent dinner in a non expensive area (avoiding paris and such, I mean)
[15:08:27] <mfilion> if we're saying thank you, round it off to 50 EUR per person
[15:08:33] <samuelig> right
[15:08:42] <anholt_> yeah, 50 EUR would feel more like a thank you than a "we're so cheap"
[15:08:46] <mfilion> exactly
[15:08:54] <samuelig> agreed
[15:08:55] <Lyude> so would SPI be paying for this from x.org funds or would we be?
[15:08:58] <Lyude> and sounds fine t ome
[15:09:07] <danvet> yeah we have 150k in the bank or thereabouts, cutting pennies for a nice dinner is a bit much
[15:09:14] <Lyude> (brb one sec, cat needs food)
[15:09:33] <danvet> plus bentiss probably saved us on the order of 50-100k or so
[15:10:22] <Lyude> danvet: I kept forgetting we'd be pulling it from xorg funds lol, I had just been under the impression we'd pay for it ourselves
[15:10:47] <Lyude> anyway - I will poke SPI about this today and forward to the board.
[15:11:13] <Lyude> the next item on the agenda is officer confirmations since we didn't get to this last time, mdnavare hwentlan y'all around?
[15:11:45] <mfilion> also, assuming they go 4 people, then just tell them they can expense 200 EUR? rather than 50 per, 200 sounds like a real thanks
[15:12:00] <danvet> Lyude, expenses should be no problem, it's paying people where regulations kick in to no end, but maybe still good to check
[15:12:17] <danvet> mfilion, +1
[15:12:23] <samuelig> mfilion, +1
[15:12:31] <anholt_> mfilion: +1
[15:12:45] * mfilion feeling the love :p
[15:14:03] <samuelig> well, just virtual love, the 200 EUR are not for you :-P
[15:14:19] <Lyude> I think we've gotta go to the next agenda item right now, but officer confirmation is important enough that if we don't get to it this meeting we should start it over email since we weren't able to do it last meeting either
[15:14:30] <mfilion> samuelig lol
[15:14:52] <danvet> Lyude, didn't we confirm you already as secretary and piled lots of thanks on top for doing such a great job?
[15:15:05] <Lyude> danvet: we did but we never actually made a decision on treasurer
[15:15:33] <Lyude> at least I don't remember us doing that, hope I'm not forgetting some emails or something
[15:15:55] <danvet> yeah, so my take since I'm not really happy
[15:16:50] <danvet> invoicing for sponsors was a drag, with one sponsor we missed their quarter for no fault on their side (but they readdded it for q4 and it seems sorted now)
[15:17:06] <danvet> in spring a took a fairly long break from sponsor hunting because the invoicing was stuck
[15:17:27] <danvet> at felt like overall it'd have been less work to do it myself
[15:17:49] <danvet> also we didn't have any grants this year or 2020, and letting students wait doesn't sound like a good idea
[15:18:08] <danvet> plus the ledger got dropped (we can do that officially as discussed last mtg, but maybe not silently)
[15:18:22] <danvet> and not a 2020 treasurer report either
[15:19:53] <mfilion> not a great image for x.org
[15:19:58] <Lyude> yeah, we need to be more on top of this stuff and I think we need a treasurer that has more time available. a lot of X.org/freedesktop stuff isn't time critical, but we really need to be on top of the couple of things that are and I don't think we've done thayt
[15:20:16] <danvet> so I'd like to see someone step up who can commit to this (it's not nothing), but I'd really not want to volunteer myself since the sponsor hunting is a bit of work already
[15:20:24] <anholt_> I'm with danvet that we need better timeliness on invoicing and report.  I could step in if we need.
[15:20:30] <samuelig> also, a treasurer that if it is overloaded by work or personal stuff, can communicate that to the rest of the board to find a (temporary if needed) replacement
[15:20:37] <anholt_> I definitely feel willing to do the work if it doesn't involve ledger
[15:20:42] <danvet> plus I'm hanging onto the idea that I'm not the only one stuck pulling in the money, that's a bit a too small bus factor
[15:21:09] <danvet> anholt_, yeah I think ledger we can formally drop and just state that board feels our "keep the books" duties are covered with spi and done
[15:21:10] <Lyude> anholt_: I think the board is fine with that too, and I -think- that would get rid of the ledger data item on the agenda too anyway
[15:21:21] <danvet> Lyude, maybe we should do that vote first?
[15:21:32] <anholt_> I would appreciate a proper vote on dropping our ledger tracking
[15:21:43] <Lyude> sounds fine by me, is everyone alright regarding dropping ledger tracking?
[15:21:46] <mfilion> +1
[15:21:48] <Lyude> (+1 for me)
[15:21:50] <anholt_> +1
[15:21:55] <danvet> something like "until we have a sustainable way to keep our own books, we rely on spi only"
[15:21:56] <danvet> +1
[15:22:05] <samuelig> +1
[15:22:12] <Lyude> alright - approved
[15:22:35] <Lyude> anholt_: so you're willing to step up as treasurer then?
[15:22:37] <danvet> anholt_, also much much appreciated if you volunteer, I think you did a great job
[15:23:21] <anholt_> yeah, I can do the job.  I figure it'll be "try to get a draft report and catch up on state of invoicing by next bod meeting"
[15:23:30] <mfilion> I've never looked into it, and out of curiosity, what does sponsor invoicing entail exactly?
[15:23:59] <danvet> I think both invoicing and payments is handled through spi request systems, and they have forms for it all
[15:24:14] <anholt_> mfilion: when a sponsor commits, then treasurer extracts the info that spi needs to write them an invoice, and forwards that to spi.  prod spi as necessary, prod sponsor as necessary, as the process gets hung up.
[15:24:33] <danvet> plus they switched to a/r, a/p accounting, so once the invoice is out it's not your problem anymore
[15:24:42] <mfilion> ha ok, so basically coordinating between parties
[15:24:44] <anholt_> extracting the info can be surprisingly slow as it involves things like "who in your megacorp actually needs to see this to pay us?"
[15:24:56] <mfilion> right, ok
[15:25:31] <mfilion> well if you need help next year chasing for info from sponsors, happy to help
[15:25:36] <danvet> yeah getting the invoice into the right PO system correctly seems fun sometimes
[15:26:16] <Lyude> so - I think that's basically it for officer confirmation
[15:26:27] <danvet> well I guess we need to vote still?
[15:26:35] <Lyude> ah yes, sorry lol
[15:26:53] <Lyude> all in favor? mfilion, danvet, anholt_, keithp, samuelig?
[15:26:56] <mfilion> +1
[15:26:59] <samuelig> +1
[15:27:01] <danvet> +1
[15:27:05] <Lyude> +1
[15:27:07] <danvet> and thanks to anolt
[15:27:16] <mfilion> yes big big thanks
[15:27:23] <Lyude> yeah thank you!
[15:27:25] <samuelig> thank you!
[15:27:50] <Lyude> So - I think the next agenda item is pretty quick, x.org/freedesktop.org domain status - danvet ?
[15:29:19] <danvet> was busy chasing invoices, so nothing new
[15:29:45] <Lyude> gotcha, requesting ledger data is the next item: I guess this doesn't really matter now with the vote we just did :P
[15:29:51] <mfilion> lol
[15:29:56] <Lyude> so unless there's any objections I will just mark this as done
[15:30:04] <anholt_> +1 to drop that topic at this point.
[15:30:12] <danvet> (also needed to just check on my pruneaux in the pot for some dessert later on)
[15:30:21] <danvet> Lyude, ack
[15:31:02] <Lyude> so I think we'll have to skip XDC2021 invoices status until anholt_ and mdnavare have had a chance to sync up, samuelig - anything on XDC2021 and XDC2022?
[15:31:08] <samuelig> yup
[15:31:12] <samuelig> XDC 2021: I wrote a blog post as both a summary of the conference  and a kind of "thank you" postcard to organizers -> https://blogs.igalia.com/siglesias/2021/09/24/X.Org-Developers-Conference-2021/
[15:31:28] <samuelig> Feedback I got was fine: media.ccc.de was very well received and people appreciated having a privacy-friendly open-source platform alternative for following the talks. One suggestion to convert XDC to a hybrid conference, because of carbon footprint and such.
[15:32:00] <samuelig> some complains about the schedule but I think we did our best, organizers also have personal responsabilities and moving the schedule more would have a huge impact on them
[15:32:13] <danvet> personally I liked the timeline on c3voc, I think we should encourage organizers to use that again
[15:32:22] <samuelig> agreed
[15:32:28] <samuelig> it is already in the RFP
[15:32:39] <samuelig> o
[15:32:41] <samuelig> oh
[15:32:41] <Lyude> c3voc?
[15:32:50] <samuelig> the organization behind media.ccc.de
[15:32:53] <danvet> ccc video team or something like that
[15:33:09] <mfilion> nice blog post samuelig, will share it on the XDC twitter if it's not already done
[15:33:15] <samuelig> also another complain is the lack of reminders about the speakers document and such
[15:33:19] <keithp> yes, thanks for a nice write up
[15:33:21] <samuelig> the info was there, but people missed it.
[15:33:33] <danvet> I checked whether c3voc takes sponsoring, but nothing, otherwise we could have tossed over something for them I think
[15:33:40] <samuelig> because it was in the acceptance email which was sent 2 months before the conf
[15:33:51] <Lyude> ah
[15:34:24] <keithp> just sending an email out the day before the conf with all of the links would be useful
[15:34:30] <samuelig> overall, the feedback I got (not too much, mostly private conversations and a couple of emails) was fine.
[15:34:41] <keithp> LF didn't manage this week; I also had to dig around through ancient emails to find stuff
[15:34:57] <samuelig> keithp, right. This is something to improve.
[15:35:04] <Lyude> shit i will brb
[15:35:27] <samuelig> we also had some indico issues because it was the first conference we organize since self-hosting it, but we could manage everything on time
[15:35:36] <samuelig> most of the people not noticed anything
[15:36:24] <samuelig> BTW, some stats to make mfilion happy
[15:36:35] <mfilion> oh?
[15:36:47] <samuelig> more or less, we got 50% audience split between YT and media.ccc.de
[15:37:36] <danvet> everyone watching both?
[15:37:38] <samuelig> the talk with biggest attendance was Alyssa's talk about Apple M1 driver... by a big margin with the next one
[15:37:49] <mfilion> haha interesting (the 50% split)
[15:37:51] <samuelig> peak of 180 people or so
[15:38:07] <mfilion> no surprise there for the M1 talk, just mentioning M1 gets you attention these days
[15:38:23] <mfilion> look I just got 100 more followers for talking about it here
[15:38:24] <mfilion> lol
[15:39:09] <Lyude> This is Lyude's roommate, Small emergency, she needed to step away for a bit
[15:39:11] <samuelig> danvet, there were a delay of ~7-10 seconds on media.cc.de but the streaming was reliable and very good quality
[15:39:25] <mfilion> haha new secretary, welcome
[15:39:31] <mfilion> :p
[15:40:09] <samuelig> organizers shared a github repo that I will mirror to freedesktop with all the material used for the virtual conference
[15:40:15] <samuelig> so we can re-use it for future events
[15:40:19] <danvet> should we do the usual think, ask organizers to have some dinner for the team or something, add it to expenses, tally up and send it over?
[15:40:28] <samuelig> danvet, I asked already about that
[15:40:31] <mfilion> Each one caters to a different audience (YT & CCC), so good to have both
[15:40:49] <samuelig> they already had something but radek did not take any invoice at all
[15:41:08] <mfilion> tell them to go for another dinner then hihi
[15:41:19] <samuelig> he thinks the conference expenses were like less than 5 EUR in servers, and like less than 50 EUR if you count everything
[15:41:28] <samuelig> so not worth asking for reimburse.
[15:41:48] <danvet> well I think we still have the 10k, so can reduce that by a bit
[15:41:48] <samuelig> in any case, I am still fighting to convince the organizrs to do a dinner which will be paid by X.Org
[15:42:09] <danvet> samuelig, tell them otherwise intel will get the money
[15:43:07] <danvet> or is the problem that we need to invoice intel for the full 10k and then pay them the dinner directly?
[15:43:14] <danvet> or is that too awkward
[15:43:25] <samuelig> we had a long discussion about this already and he didn't want our money, he says it was nothing
[15:43:34] <mfilion> hahaha
[15:43:42] <mfilion> I have messages from him that says otherwise
[15:43:45] <mfilion> that it was lots of work
[15:43:52] <mfilion> definitely not "nothing"
[15:43:54] <samuelig> nothing in the sense of expenses
[15:43:58] <samuelig> not in the sense of work
[15:44:01] <mfilion> ahhhok
[15:44:24] <samuelig> what we can do is to grab the 10 k from intel
[15:44:36] <samuelig> conf expeses are less than 50 EUR, so don't care
[15:44:44] <samuelig> but pay them a 50 EUR / person dinner like bentiss
[15:44:48] <mfilion> +1
[15:45:48] <danvet> +1
[15:46:04] <samuelig> +1 from me, obviously
[15:46:23] <Lyude> ok - i'm back. our cats got in a fight and unfortunately in breaking them up I was the casualty, lol.
[15:46:32] <mfilion> oops
[15:46:38] <mfilion> are you ok?
[15:46:44] <Lyude> yeah just lots of scratches lol
[15:46:51] <mfilion> fun... :(
[15:47:16] <mfilion> so you can read through what we were discussing, we were at the point of voting
[15:48:56] <Lyude> +1 from me, also luckily I think the rest of the agenda items are small. mipi alliance and CSI: haven't had the time to send out any mail for that, GSoC/outreachy/EVoC: no updates there
[15:49:32] <samuelig> Lyude, regarding XDC 2022 nothing to add. Just that it was publicly announced :)
[15:49:37] <Lyude> gotcha
[15:50:47] <Lyude> Anyway - I think that's it for the meeting, thanks for coming everyone!
[15:50:56] <keithp> thanks all!
[15:51:00] <mfilion> alright, thanks Lyude, take care of those scratches
[15:51:09] <mfilion> and thanks again anholt_ !
[15:52:15] <samuelig> thanks!
[15:52:49] <daniels> danvet: it’s not just the direct cost Ben has saved us, but the fact that there would be no infrastructure to run without him over the last year - so how much is the org itself worth …
[15:57:50] <daniels> Lyude: also I just paid £12 for a pizza, would certainly suggest that €17 won’t carry you super far tbh
[15:59:57] <danvet> yeah it should cover at least a "guide micheline for two" or so I think
[16:00:18] <danvet> if bentiss disappears we'll go broke in less than a year
[16:04:20] <daniels> the money isn’t the issue, it’s that this board fails to have a raîson d’ètre if the infra fails to exist
[16:35:15] <danvet> I meant equivalent if we'd need to pay some folks to run the show, and then we'd still cease pretty quickly
[16:37:05] <daniels> as said previously, I feel like investment would absolutely support fundraising as a demonstration of value
[16:43:31] <hwentlan> sorry i missed the meeting. i had a team event today at work

[17:15:17] [disconnected at Thu Sep 30 17:15:17 2021]