[15:02:39] [connected at Thu May  6 15:02:39 2021]
[15:02:40] [I have joined #xf-bod]
[15:04:19] <Lyude> Hi everyone! it looks like we already have quorum so I can get right to it: our agenda today is x.org/freedesktop.org domain status, XDC2020 invoices status, XDC2021, XDC2022, HDMI 2.1, EVoC, and sharing of non-redistributable game traces within X.org members
[15:05:13] * keithp o
[15:05:24] <Lyude> oh perfect timing, keithp - do you want to go over domain status?
[15:05:36] <keithp> sure, freedesktop.org domain should be all done
[15:05:55] <keithp> now to dig through the remaining domains and decide if we want to keep them or just let them expire
[15:06:05] <keithp> things like fontconfig.org, cairographics.org, etc
[15:06:18] <danvet> oh, do we have a list somewhere and any idea who owns them?
[15:06:45] <keithp> not really?
[15:07:03] <danvet> hm maybe we could ask emersion to dump the dns
[15:07:09] <keithp> my domain list includes cairgraphics.org and fontconfig.org. I think I let xwin.org expire
[15:07:26] <keithp> that might be a good start; look at the domains we actually still host
[15:08:04] <danvet> I can ping emersion on that, since way back I volunteered on trying to fix some of our domain name skeletons
[15:08:16] <danvet> but maybe the skeletons are better for discussion on board@
[15:08:25] <keithp> heh
[15:09:12] <Lyude> alright - samuelig, want to go over XDC2021 and XDC2022
[15:09:19] <samuelig> yup
[15:09:25] <samuelig> XDC 2021: we have the web almost ready: registration form done, CfP form done, copied relevant content from last year. We have pending the DNS redirect (xdc2021.x.org) which requires some changes on Indico code and sponsorbox (which is less importart at this moment). Cfp announcement is already done and we already agreed in the board to have an XDC virtual again this year.
[15:09:31] <samuelig> We are going to update the travel sponsorship policy to include virtual conference expenses (computer peripherals, internet connection, etc). This change was already approved last year but we have not updated the policy content yet. The changes are already reviewed and I will do it tomorrow morning.
[15:10:22] <samuelig> there is one thing that requires board vote, but I'll give some minutes just in case somebody wants to comment somehting on this ^
[15:11:02] <mfilion> That reminds me, I still can't edit the indico site for some reason. mupuf can you take a look when you have a minute?
[15:11:03] <Lyude> keithp, danvet, hwentlan, mfilion ^ ?
[15:11:07] <danvet> Lyude, I'm going to file a gitlab issue for this domain stuff, it's probably going to be a pile
[15:11:13] <Lyude> danvet: sgmt
[15:11:15] <Lyude> *sgtm
[15:11:17] <samuelig> mfilion, I'll give you rights if you have already the account
[15:11:24] <samuelig> create.
[15:11:29] <mfilion> oh nice ok, thank you
[15:11:29] <samuelig> created, mfilion 
[15:11:39] <samuelig> np
[15:11:46] <samuelig> Right now we are discussing the schedule hours. I suggest to keep same schedule than last year: from 13:00 UTC+2 to 20:30 UTC+2 (starting at 8am in atlantic timezone). What do you think? (+1 -> go for it; -1 -> I prefer other (please indicate which); 0 -> I need more time to decide).
[15:12:06] <mfilion> +1
[15:12:17] <keithp> yeah, +1; worked well enough last year
[15:12:18] <hwentlan> +1
[15:12:19] <Lyude> +1
[15:12:22] <samuelig> +1
[15:12:22] <Lyude> (approved)
[15:12:36] <danvet> yeah +1
[15:12:41] <mupuf> mfilion: I tried to send you a link, but you were away
[15:12:42] <mfilion> samuelig I think it would be good to get the sponsorbox working when we launch the site & cfp
[15:12:51] <mupuf> mfilion: https://indico.freedesktop.org/event/1/manage/
[15:12:51] <anholt_> here now
[15:13:04] <mfilion> mupuf "Access Denied
[15:13:04] <mfilion> You are not allowed to access this page."
[15:13:14] <danvet> Lyude, do you have a gitlab issue label for stuff you keep on your agenda?
[15:13:25] <samuelig> mfilion, yeah, but I think it is more important the Cfp if I need to choose. Let's see if mupuf can find the time to fix both things (DNS and sponsorbox)
[15:13:25] <Lyude> danvet: no but that's probably not a bad idea
[15:13:44] <Lyude> (fwiw I keep a running list in my trello of agenda items)
[15:13:52] <mfilion> samuelig once I have access I can take a look too
[15:14:00] <samuelig> XDC 2022: We have already have the RfP draft done. We will send it together with the CfP announcement. I set the dealine on September 1st, just in case we want to approve it by the XDC but we can set it earlier/later.
[15:14:04] <mupuf> mfilion: I don't get it. You are a chair person for it :s
[15:14:09] <mupuf> I am checking it right now :s
[15:14:16] <mfilion> lol thanks :)
[15:14:20] <danvet> Lyude, tell me if you have one and I'll add it
[15:14:35] <samuelig> mfilion, done -> https://indico.freedesktop.org/event/1/manage
[15:14:51] <samuelig> let me know if you can enter into that area of the website
[15:15:40] <samuelig> ups, now it should work (forgot to click on save button lol)
[15:15:58] <Lyude> btw mfilion, danvet, keithp, anholt_, hwentlan - what do you guys think about the funding policy change that samuelig mentioned?
[15:16:02] <mupuf> samuelig: what else did you do?
[15:16:16] <danvet> Lyude, lgtm, and I thought it was all approved already ...
[15:16:28] <samuelig> mupuf, in indico? nothing else. why?
[15:16:37] <Lyude> i thought the +1s were for the schedule change
[15:16:38] <mfilion> Lyude I replied on the git earlier today regarding the policy change, lgtm
[15:16:52] <samuelig> Lyude, yes, the +1 are for the schedule, not the policy
[15:16:58] <mfilion> yep that worked samuelig, thank you!
[15:17:06] <keithp> Lyude: yeah, same -- seems fine, thought we'd approved that last year
[15:17:11] <Lyude> samuelig: well I'm +1 on the policy, so that makes it approved
[15:17:12] <mupuf> samuelig: I mean, is there more to do than just add someone as a chair person?
[15:17:14] <samuelig> the travel sponsorship was already approved, we just needed to update its ocntents in the wiki and I think they are fine.
[15:17:24] <Lyude> ah gotcha
[15:17:36] <samuelig> mupuf, nope, just that.
[15:17:52] <mupuf> samuelig: and he wasn't in the list already?
[15:17:55] <samuelig> mupuf, check https://indico.freedesktop.org/event/1/manage/protection
[15:18:02] <Lyude> alright - so I don't think mdnavare is here so we'll skip the invoices check, danvet - any update with XDC2022 sponsors so far?
[15:18:03] <mfilion> samuelig mupuf will spend some time on it today/tomorrow to figure out the sponsorbox & mobile, will let u know 
[15:18:19] <mupuf> samuelig: ah. I see
[15:18:28] <mupuf> this is stupid that we have to add someone in two places...
[15:18:42] <samuelig> mupuf, remember to click on the save button in that area xD
[15:18:49] <danvet> I finally kicked it off with the initial nagging
[15:18:54] <danvet> including Intel 30k committed now
[15:19:04] <danvet> and now invoicing needs to happen, I have no idea on that
[15:19:11] <samuelig> mupuf, ok thanks a lot for your work setuping indico!!
[15:19:13] <danvet> hopefully I can kick off the next round next week or so
[15:19:19] <mfilion> danvet 30K?
[15:19:23] <mupuf> samuelig: "working" :D
[15:19:47] <danvet> also thanks to samuelig we now have a checkbox list in the gitlab issues for committed sponsors so we don't forget
[15:19:52] <danvet> mfilion, did I not count correctly?
[15:20:03] <samuelig> mupuf, I think the chair person is for the CfP, not for editing the website
[15:20:13] <samuelig> but I need to read Indico doc to be sure, just my experience
[15:20:17] <Lyude> oh btw - I just realized I forgot one agenda item: +equinox meeting
[15:20:30] <mfilion> danvet lol nevermind, I thought you meant Intel had committed 30k haha
[15:20:38] <danvet> mfilion, nah
[15:20:40] <danvet> total
[15:20:47] <mfilion> yeah that's what I had too
[15:20:51] <mfilion> all good
[15:21:14] <Lyude> alright. hwentlan - any updates with the HDMI 2.1 stuff?
[15:21:51] <hwentlan> couldn't find a good email address for the HDMI forum but sent it to our AMD rep that sits on the board
[15:22:04] <hwentlan> unfortunately he's on vacation this week so i'll ping him again next week
[15:23:02] <Lyude> it's a start :), thanks!
[15:23:32] <hwentlan> as long as we're moving forward not backward :)
[15:23:40] <samuelig> mupuf, the chairperson is for creating meetings in Indico, not for website management -> https://learn.getindico.io/meetings/creating/
[15:23:46] <Lyude> Alright - the next thing on the agenda is EVoC. Apparently we don't really have anyone who owns the list for this anymore since robclark left, would anyone be willing to help out with this?
[15:24:43] <mfilion> maybe tlwoerner would be interested now that we don't have gsoc?
[15:25:00] <mupuf> samuelig: I see
[15:25:09] <mfilion> someone emailed about EVoC a few weeks ago, showing interest in the projects, would be good to get back to them
[15:25:38] <Lyude> I just poked tlwoerner btw
[15:26:00] <Lyude> so I guess we'll see (unless anyone else is interested of course :)
[15:26:32] <Lyude> I'll keep it on the agenda for now until then
[15:26:48] <mfilion> nice, thank you
[15:27:23] <Lyude> next up is sharing of non-redistributable game traces within X.org members, hwentlan samuelig danvet mfilion anholt_ keithp have y'all had a chance to read that email yet?
[15:27:37] <Lyude> also oh uh, that was a quick response. apparently tlwoerner isn't interested in doing the EVoC stuff anymore
[15:27:45] <keithp> yeah, don't really have any strong opinions on how to manage
[15:28:30] <danvet> yeah sounds like reasonable thing for us to support, but needs spi and game companies to figure out it's doable
[15:28:35] <anholt_> yeah, so we (google/collabora) really interested in being able to share traces of real-world apps with mesa devs
[15:28:50] <anholt_> google currently shares traces under nda with contractors
[15:28:58] <anholt_> without getting every game company involved
[15:29:46] <samuelig> yeah, I think we should keep them but not mandatory to pass them in order to merge patches. But allowing interested parties (Mesa developers in this case) to access to that traces under X.Org agreement (NDA) that's a very good idea.
[15:29:48] <danvet> if we'd do a board vote to task anholt_ to figure out how to make this happen with spi it'd get my +1 :-)
[15:29:51] <anholt_> so the question was: could we get xorg under nda, and then xorg members could have access to the traces and now we don't need to do some complicated handshake to get trace accesss every time someone's change breaks a trace on a mesa driver.
[15:30:08] <samuelig> at the end is to benefit the quality of the drivers
[15:30:56] <danvet> yeah I think same thing as we do with khronos through spi makes sense, if that's possible
[15:31:09] <Lyude> yeah - if anholt_ is willing to take this on it's a +1 from me
[15:31:23] <danvet> since xorg itself can't really sign anything anymore
[15:31:34] <keithp> anholt_: I think we'd need some kind of transient NDA with the X.org devs though; otherwise they *could* just post them
[15:31:50] <hwentlan> would we have to make sure only mesa devs that are also xorg members can access them?
[15:31:56] <hwentlan> in general it sounds like a great idea
[15:31:57] <anholt_> (to be clear, the payload of traces we're initially talking about sharing here is top 100 android games, which we have plans for doing both correctness and performance regression testing)
[15:31:57] <mfilion> and anyone can join x.org, so we would have to be extra careful when approving new members
[15:32:12] <Lyude> hwentlan: yeah, but all mesa developers can be x.org members - so I don't think that'd be too big of a deal
[15:32:37] <hwentlan> and our policy to accept members is very lax
[15:32:44] <Lyude> if there's an extra nda involved it might be good to have interested members sign that themselves as well like keithp mentioned
[15:32:49] <hwentlan> but i guess maybe those would be questions to work out with spi
[15:33:00] <anholt_> keithp: that seems like an important concern -- did we have anything special for other nda-ish things that have been shared with us (DP specs)?
[15:33:04] <Lyude> like currently with vesa everyone has access to dp spec stuff but you have to ask for it
[15:33:24] <keithp> anholt_: nope
[15:33:24] <Lyude> anholt_: vesa actually didn't really require anything from us (besides the obvious 'don't share these')
[15:33:41] <keithp> Lyude: asking is a form of agreement though
[15:33:45] <danvet> keithp, I guess spi could sign these nda with individuals
[15:33:46] <keithp> wonder if that's sufficient
[15:33:52] <danvet> not sure that's better than signing with google directly
[15:34:06] <keithp> as in 'yes, but only if you agree to not publish them'
[15:34:24] <keithp> danvet: definitely want to avoid devs needing to deal with google or other companies
[15:34:40] <danvet> keithp, yeah good point
[15:34:40] <anholt_> so the alternative we tossed around was "google probably has nda with everyone's employer already", but that leaves individual contributors out in the cold, so we were hoping for something more general than that
[15:34:52] <keithp> definitely
[15:34:55] <danvet> anholt_, yeah that's not super great
[15:35:02] <Lyude> yeahhhh, i don't really think that'd work. also google definitely doesn't have an nda with everyone's employer already
[15:35:06] <samuelig> there might be more companies interested other than google
[15:35:27] <samuelig> so I think we should have a generic procedure with spi
[15:35:31] <danvet> yeah I think if we could do this as a framework with spi and google to start, and then perhaps ask the usual other suspects
[15:35:34] <hwentlan> yes, let's try to keep this open for individual contributors
[15:35:43] <samuelig> not only google or <add another company name here> agreement with individuals
[15:36:06] <danvet> anholt_, also for some of the google nda it's add-on, and they're draconian
[15:36:25] <danvet> like the android one is an nda I refuse to sign and intel can sod off and assign me different work
[15:37:51] <Lyude> alright, let's do a vote then just to make it official (already have a +1 from danvet and myself)
[15:38:35] <Lyude> hwentlan, samuelig, keithp, mfilion ^
[15:38:46] <samuelig> +1
[15:38:46] <mfilion> you guys lost me here, what are we making official? that anholt_ will look into it?
[15:38:47] <anholt_> so to be clear: this is for me to pursue getting some system for companies to NDA with us and have SPI be able to NDA with our members so we can distribute these things.
[15:38:49] <hwentlan> what specifically are we voting on?
[15:39:02] <mfilion> ahh right ok
[15:39:04] <mfilion> +1 then
[15:39:06] <Lyude> agh sorry - yeah that's what I meant
[15:39:07] <keithp> anholt_: +1 for that
[15:39:09] <samuelig> anholt_, agreed. +1
[15:39:10] <hwentlan> +1
[15:39:13] <danvet> +1
[15:39:39] <keithp> figure out what those companies will tolerate for a process with our members during that negotiation
[15:39:55] <keithp> ideally something similar to our existing vesa process
[15:39:58] <Lyude> mhm (also - approved)
[15:40:10] <anholt_> keithp: yeah.  We still haven't identified who on the google side would set up a legal thing to do this.
[15:40:41] <danvet> also what spi can tolerate to make sure the buck doesn't stop with them
[15:40:50] <keithp> all good
[15:41:15] <mfilion> Lyude before we move on to the next topic, you wrote you heard back from tlwoerner and he's not interested in EVoC?
[15:41:15] <Lyude> btw - I will make sure to setup a gitlab issue for this and assign you to it anholt
[15:41:27] <Lyude> mfilion: yeah - sounds like he doesn't want to make the time comittment
[15:41:34] <mfilion> so what do we do?
[15:42:22] <Lyude> I am honestly unsure :s, we're going to need to find someone else to volunteer but I'm not really sure who all would be interested
[15:42:25] <danvet> indefinitely on hold until someone steps up
[15:42:38] <danvet> if we don't find anyone maybe should make that official :-/
[15:42:58] <samuelig> Lyude, we can continue the discussion on EVoC via email and let's see if we can find a volunteer either in the board itself or any other member of our community
[15:43:02] <Lyude> I can also put out some feeler emails on various mailing lists afterwards if you think that's worth doing 
[15:43:31] <samuelig> Lyude, yeah, I would do that if there is nobody in the board volunteering for EVoC management.
[15:43:48] <samuelig> (I am not sure if all board members are now here in this meeting)
[15:43:51] <mfilion> good idea Lyude
[15:44:02] <Lyude> samuelig: yeah mdnavare is absent
[15:44:29] <samuelig> Lyude, travel sponsorship policy just updated to cover virtual conference expenses :)
[15:45:03] <Lyude> alright - we can continue this over email + I'll write something up to send out to various mailing lists today, do we have any documentation on the kind of requirements we'd need for someone who's running EVoC?
[15:45:24] <danvet> if it's not on the board responsibilities page then no
[15:45:40] <danvet> https://www.x.org/wiki/BoardOfDirectors/Duties/
[15:45:56] <danvet> not really anything for the coordinator
[15:46:22] <samuelig> maybe putting mentors in contact with students?
[15:46:31] <samuelig> or looking for mentors.
[15:46:35] <Lyude> it looks like it was trevor so maybe we can ask them to write up a quick blurb about it on their way out
[15:47:14] <danvet> Lyude, not sure there's much, evoc died out a bit I think :-(
[15:47:28] <danvet> we're not doing anything to highlight it, nor anything else much really
[15:47:44] <danvet> so would need to be quite a bit of effort to restart
[15:48:16] <mfilion> hmm ok I had not realized it was that dead
[15:48:53] <Lyude> that makes sense. I think in general that might be ok if we're able to start participating in outreachy more actively
[15:49:15] <Lyude> (I would like to make sure that x.org is at least in some kind of outreach program, at least imho)
[15:49:46] <danvet> btw on dead effort, do we have the fd.o hosting sponsors aka quinix metal still on our agenda?
[15:49:49] <Lyude> also, just going to go over this agenda item quickly since we're 10 minutes to the end of the meeting - mfilion have you setup a meeting with equinox yet?
[15:49:58] <Lyude> danvet: hah, was literally typing that as you posted that :P
[15:49:59] <danvet> Lyude, yeah definitely
[15:50:27] <mfilion> not yet, but will make sure its done this month
[15:51:01] <mfilion> and yes agreed about outreach program, still have some emails from outreachy to look into
[15:51:13] <Lyude> alright. also on the evoc thing: I think it might still be a good idea then to at least poke trevor to see what they think (e.g. if it's going to be worth starting up again or not) and if so, just to provide a little info on what needs to be done to bring it back
[15:51:43] <Lyude> i think after that happens we can send out the email, since i'd like us to have a basic idea of what we're asking for that might not be obvious
[15:51:51] <mfilion> sounds good
[15:52:19] <Lyude> I think that's the end of the meeting then, thank you everyone for coming!
[15:52:55] <mfilion> cheers
[15:53:15] <anholt_> oh: heads up for folks here.  I'm transitioning, new name is Emma Anholt.
[15:54:26] <danvet> oh hi emma
[15:54:44] <samuelig> anholt_, great! hi emma :)
[15:54:45] <danvet> anything on how widely this is offical already
[15:54:56] <danvet> ?
[15:55:05] <hwentlan> hi emma :)
[15:55:23] <Lyude> wooooooooooo! congrats, hello emma!!
[15:55:24] <anholt_> name changed on primary email address and gitlab, going to try to sort out work todayish.
[15:55:51] <danvet> awesome, I guess irc and all will follow around
[15:55:52] <anholt_> but there are so, so many places to change I'm just kind of updating as I interact
[15:56:15] <anholt_> Yeah, hexchat is missing its settings menu thanks to gnome ui adventures so I haven't changed it.
[15:56:24] <samuelig> anholt_, I guess updating the name will take time xD I am going to take the opportunity and tell you to update https://www.x.org/wiki/BoardOfDirectors/ and https://dri.freedesktop.org/wiki/WhosWho/ :-) 
[15:56:50] <danvet> well bod page on the wiki has you under Emma now
[15:56:52] <anholt_> oh dear, that's got me marked as Broadcom still.  that hasn't been true for a bit
[15:56:56] * danvet didn't butcher the table it seems
[15:57:03] <danvet> oh lol, I didn't even see that
[15:57:09] <anholt_> I'll fix
[15:57:21] <danvet> was probably faster
[15:57:36] <samuelig> that is an evidence on how often we update our wikis xD
[15:58:57] <hwentlan> totally forgot about the WhosWho wiki. was looking for a couple years back and couldn't find it then
[15:59:48] <samuelig> hwentlan, yeah, it is very convenient. I have it in my bookmarks
[16:01:21] <samuelig> Lyude, have we finished the meeting?
[16:01:36] <Lyude> samuelig: yep!
[16:01:47] <samuelig> great ;) thanks!
[16:04:09] <mfilion> oh cool anholt_, hi emma! :)
[16:04:09] <danvet> anholt_, also fixed it in the former directors list at the bottom now
[16:04:18] <anholt_> thanks!
[16:04:41] <danvet> also took me way to long to compute that anholt stays, I should probably sign off and sleep
[18:58:20] [disconnected at Thu May  6 18:58:20 2021]