[15:03:42] [connected at Thu May  7 15:03:42 2020]
[15:03:42] [I have joined #xf-bod]
[15:03:50] <Lyude> there we go :)
[15:04:48] <Lyude> hi-so, agenda for today: XDC2019 sponsor invoicing, x.org/freedesktop.org domain status, cloud hosting for freedesktop.org gsoc/evoc, xdc2020, xdc2020 sponsors, and google season of docs
[15:04:58] <Lyude> (I think we should have covered election results last meeting, iirc?)
[15:05:21] <danvet_> hi all
[15:05:48] <Lyude> danvet_: hey! I guess we could start with xdc2020 sponsors?
[15:05:59] <danvet_> agenda += treasurer report?
[15:06:10] <Lyude> ah right, added
[15:07:05] <danvet_> oops sorry, got distracted a bit
[15:07:30] <danvet_> so xdc20 hunt is still standy, but I'm really hoping stuff gets reasonable again here and I should have some time
[15:07:41] <danvet_> plus I kinda tricked mfilion into this, can't abandon :-)
[15:07:56] <danvet_> also no more elections to shepherd, so that's off
[15:08:28] <danvet_> Lyude, oh agenda += board of directors handover, or is that all done already?
[15:08:46] <Lyude> danvet_: I should have done everything on my duties list last week
[15:08:52] <danvet_> oh awesome
[15:09:06] <danvet_> mfilion, current sponsor tracking is done in gitlab issues
[15:09:17] <danvet_> https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xorgfoundation/bod-archive/-/issues?label_name%5B%5D=sponsors
[15:09:23] <mfilion> I was just going to ask about that
[15:09:26] <mfilion> Thks
[15:09:42] <danvet_> and I'll try to really kick all the threads again and then you should see them all on board@
[15:09:55] <danvet_> they're also in archives, but I guess that's awkward to navigate
[15:10:52] <Lyude> alright-so, XDC2019 sponsor invoicing I can start on (poke - anholt)
[15:11:07] <Lyude> it looks like arm's payment has finally, actually for real this time, gone through
[15:11:35] <danvet_> \o/
[15:11:37] <Lyude> i haven't seen any updates from Intel other then us not getting the info for following up with their vendor portal
[15:11:47] <mdnavare> mdnavare joining sorry for joining in late
[15:11:49] <Lyude> np
[15:11:58] <mfilion> why were both arm & intel so slow to pay?
[15:12:00] <danvet_> yeah I dunno about intel, I didn't get anything from my last internal ping
[15:12:14] <danvet_> mfilion, one-upmanship in most byzantine vendor portal
[15:12:21] <mdnavare> yes i trie to ping hillarie about this too no answer
[15:12:37] <danvet_> intel open source gfx folks moved in the org chart, the new one is horrors
[15:12:39] <Lyude> mfilion: this happened the previous year with arm as well iirc
[15:12:45] <danvet_> arm was kinda trouble last year too, but not that bad
[15:12:59] <danvet_> but arm gfx also moved in the org chart afaik
[15:13:34] <Lyude> keithp, you around for x.org/freedesktop.org domain status?
[15:13:46] <Lyude> I don't think I've seen any updates go by with that yet
[15:14:42] <mfilion> well maybe for 2020 we can make it easier with arm, I had asked my contact to sponsor 2019, and he was interested, but then another department sponsored instead. so maybe its just a question of working with the right department?
[15:15:09] <danvet_> mfilion, yeah I have some more contacts for poking arm for xdc20
[15:15:20] <mfilion> have you poked andrew wafaa?
[15:15:29] <danvet_> yeah that one
[15:15:30] <danvet_> iirc
[15:15:41] <keithp> Lyude: overlapping with teleconf, but mostly. I haven't done or heard anything?
[15:15:42] <mfilion> he's the one that should be sponsoring, he's director, open source communities at arm...
[15:15:54] <danvet_> oh I haven't gotten around to poking for xdc20 yet :-(
[15:16:15] <Lyude> keithp: i can poke them again today, wouldn't be surprised if I forgot to do that at some point
[15:16:19] <danvet_> mfilion, so yeah xdc20 should be smoother for arm hopefully
[15:16:21] <mfilion> he's been poking me about yocto (he was just elected chair), so I'm happy to poke him for xdc20 lol
[15:16:27] <Lyude> iirc i thought I remembered saying I would
[15:16:27] <danvet_> aside from covid-19 curveball ofc
[15:16:43] <Lyude> anyway-samuelig, you around to cover xdc2020 updates?
[15:17:23] <samuelig> yep
[15:18:09] <samuelig> we are finishing the website content update. We are also working on the final draft for the CfP, which I think we would be able to open in the coming weeks.
[15:18:34] <samuelig> Also we renamed our twitter account to xdc2020 :)
[15:19:39] <mfilion> samuelig I've been meaning to ask, why are you the one doing all this work, shouldn't it be the people in gdansk? 
[15:19:54] <mfilion> or did something change in the organization of xdc?
[15:20:13] <samuelig> mfilion, they are indeed. Radek is the one doing the work there.
[15:20:57] <samuelig> however, the sponsors and CfP content I am doing it to speed up things.
[15:21:24] <danvet_> samuelig, is mupuf_ officially volunteered now to take over some stuff, and do we have the local one too?
[15:21:28] <samuelig> but yeah, the rest of the website was updated by the organizers
[15:21:59] <mfilion> ah ok! was wondering as I was the one who did website & twitter last year (as organizer) :)
[15:22:22] <samuelig> danvet_, as far as I know, mupuf_ will collaborate in it.
[15:23:00] <samuelig> regarding the local one, I only talked to Radek
[15:23:10] <mdnavare> samuelig: I can help out on adding some content there too if you need help on anything
[15:23:30] <Lyude> anholt: jfyi - I just went over xdc2019 sponsor invoicing
[15:23:31] <anholt_> I was off by an hour today, sorry.
[15:23:46] <Lyude> np, kinda my fault for forgetting your reminder too :p
[15:23:48] <samuelig> mdnavare, thanks! I'll take you into account ;-)
[15:23:56] <Lyude> anholt_: want to go over the treasurer report?
[15:23:59] <anholt_> wouldn't have helped today.
[15:24:00] <mdnavare> samuelig: Like adding the Coc section or something else, I remember last year mfilion and I added a section to encourage the participation 
[15:24:26] <mfilion> mdnavare I was going to add, you can probably copy alot of the content from last year
[15:24:28] <anholt_> I got the ledger up to date except for a couple big income items, and have those sorted out now after talking to tbm
[15:24:46] <anholt_> so next is updating those and writing up a report
[15:24:58] <samuelig> mdnavare, that would be definitely helpful. I copied most of the content from last year. you can see the draft website at xdc2020.x.org
[15:25:24] <mdnavare> samuelig: okay cool will check it out
[15:25:36] <samuelig> mfilion, ^
[15:25:37] <Lyude> anholt_: cool. tlwoerner - want to go over GSoC/EVoC/GSoD? and daniels, you around to go over cloud hosting stuff after that?
[15:25:47] <tlwoerner> sure
[15:26:13] <tlwoerner> we were granted 1 slot from google, we offered it to Melissa Wen, who accepted it
[15:26:36] <danvet_> Lyude, I can do fd.o update I think
[15:26:44] <tlwoerner> i was too busy to apply to google "season of docs", sorry. we missed the deadline
[15:26:54] <danvet_> since I occasionally follow what's going on on #freedesktop
[15:27:10] <tlwoerner> i do still want to collect more stats and run some sort of poll on whether people are interested in a docs cleanup/conversion
[15:27:58] <mfilion> Lyude daniels logged off earlier as he wasn't feeling well
[15:28:07] <Lyude> mfilion: ah :\
[15:28:15] <Lyude> and danvet_  yeah that should be fine
[15:28:33] <Lyude> tlwoerner: cool, danvet_ - whenever you're ready
[15:28:34] <tlwoerner> for gsoc we are in the community bonding phase, students are expected to start working on their projects starting June 1
[15:28:35] <danvet_>  $3355 for April, according to Google billing dashboard <- cost update per bentiss
[15:28:41] <Lyude> oh-oops, sorry tlwoerner keep going :P
[15:28:45] <danvet_> so we're on track
[15:28:56] <tlwoerner> all good, that's all
[15:29:01] <Lyude> cool, danvet_ then?
[15:29:06] <Lyude> oh wait you started oop
[15:29:19] <danvet_> fd.o admins also are pondering a pile more things to further reduce costs, especially bw costs
[15:29:29] <danvet_> bunch of technical discussions going on with gitlab support too
[15:29:48] <danvet_> also grafana.freedesktop.org is getting seriously pretty and collecting tons of useful data
[15:30:10] <danvet_> latest addition is split up bw consumption by geo, so that we can find any non-CI related big consumers
[15:30:19] <danvet_> really great work going on
[15:31:18] <danvet_> I think that's about all, Lyude I guess you can update on the gitlab sponsoring stuff
[15:31:50] <Lyude> danvet_: sure thing. so-we figured out the last of the questions with the sponsorship, and we should be getting the invoice paid soon
[15:32:27] <Lyude> there is still the question of the logo stuff (not time sensitive yet) so if folks could reply to the email I sent about that I'd appreciate it
[15:33:09] <Lyude> really just wondering if it's worth poking gnome about trademark lawyers
[15:33:17] <Lyude> anyway-that's pretty much everything. thanks for coming everyone
[15:33:18] <danvet_> Lyude, I dont think we've ever defended our logos/trademarks legally
[15:33:37] <danvet_> if someone has time to chase it, why not
[15:33:48] <danvet_> but iirc that question has come a few times thus far, never got far really
[15:34:05] <Lyude> danvet_: alright-good enough for me, I'll try to take a look at it in the near future 
[15:34:15] <Lyude> planning on poking the gnome people first to see what they did for this
[15:34:42] <samuelig> Lyude, I think we can poke gnome about what they did, just getting some additional info about this would help us to make any decision
[15:34:51] <Lyude> gotcha
[15:34:58] <Lyude> anyway, thanks for coming to the meeting everyone
[15:36:38] <danvet_> Lyude, maybe to add for the minutes: we're on track to get fd.o costs down to the level we calculated as "CI disabled", so really looking good for long-term sustainable costs
[15:36:49] <danvet_> even if we can't get e.g. google back for next year
[15:37:25] <samuelig> great!
[15:37:58] <danvet_> maybe time to do a formal update on the massive sprawling thread next board meeting or so?
[15:38:06] <danvet_> or just minutes here?
[15:39:16] <Lyude> danvet_: yeah, might be good to send out an update email on this
[15:42:20] <mfilion> one question regarding sponsors - danvet_ had mentioned last year need to get sponsors for x.org itself rather than just xdc, is that idea still floating around?
[15:44:08] <mfilion> or is that more a long-term thing?
[15:44:59] <danvet_> mfilion, I think the long-term plan would be to get sponsors for fd.o infrastructure
[15:45:06] <danvet_> that's the big money burner outside of xdc
[15:45:17] <danvet_> and the gitlab stuff that's in progress is such a sponsoring
[15:45:23] <danvet_> but that was totally ad-hoc
[15:45:51] <danvet_> the other ad-hoc sponsoring we've had for fd.o was from google for google cloud credits
[15:46:05] <danvet_> but google bailed ship, probably because covid-19 or something like that
[15:46:39] <danvet_> so figuring out how we sell the infrastructure we have under the fd.o umbrella and the awesome work that enables would be useful
[15:46:58] <danvet_> I think short-term we can squeeze by since the costs have gone down
[15:47:27] <danvet_> long term there's a pile of ideas what we could/should do, but not much concrete yet
[15:47:43] <mfilion> so why not have sponsors of the foundation itself, which in turn uses the funds to support the infrastructure and xdc?
[15:47:55] <danvet_> we could do that too I guess
[15:48:00] <danvet_> whatever sells best :-)
[15:48:02] <mfilion> especially if there's a way to offer year-long visibility to the sponsors, that might entice some companies
[15:48:19] <danvet_> I think the trouble is also that we suck at showing what we enable
[15:48:19] <mfilion> I mean that's how the LF does it for their projects, they ask for year-long "memberships"
[15:48:32] <danvet_> yeah that was one of the ideas that iirc daniels brought up
[15:48:38] <mfilion> good thing you have a marketing guy now on the board :p
[15:48:40] <danvet_> I think gnome foundation also works like this a bit
[15:48:57] <danvet_> oh we totally sucked at this :-)
[15:49:12] <mfilion> I know daniels mentioned revamping the project websites on fdo
[15:49:52] <danvet_> yeah we have a distinct late 90s vibe I think
[15:49:57] <mfilion> but I think x.org needs a refresh too, a more modern look which would allow us to get sell the idea to sponsors of having their logo on the front page
[15:50:03] <mfilion> haha indeed
[15:50:14] <danvet_> gitlab.fd.o is really fresh air here
[15:50:58] <danvet_> mfilion, I think one idea that hovers around but not one got to it is throw out the ikiwiki whink we have
[15:51:09] <danvet_> and build something somewhat sleak and modern-looking on top of gitlab pages
[15:51:27] <danvet_> but that is probably a ton of work
[15:52:14] <mfilion> on top of gitlab?
[15:52:22] <danvet_> essentially static site generator
[15:52:32] <danvet_> and instead of in-place wiki editing we just link to the gitlab repo
[15:52:41] <danvet_> which has all the built-in editing support already
[15:52:46] <danvet_> and some markdown editor
[15:52:50] <mfilion> right ok
[15:52:54] <danvet_> ofc not exactly wysiwyg
[15:52:55] <daniels> yes
[15:53:04] <mfilion> lol hello daniels
[15:53:12] <danvet_> but less admin work, easiy to polish the style-sheet and probably still easy enough to quickly edit
[15:53:18] <daniels> we can do an iki -> ssg conversion pretty easily as iki is basically an SSG
[15:53:43] <daniels> but we need content and organisation; right now we kind of not really have the first and definitely don't have the second
[15:53:43] <danvet_> daniels, is iki markdown roughly correct in gitlab editor?
[15:53:54] <danvet_> daniels, also slick design
[15:53:54] <daniels> dunno
[15:54:13] <daniels> we're using Mesa (see ml thread) as the testbed for how we move big sites
[15:54:43] <daniels> we can keep most of the content on Pages but tarballs have to stay at PSU because they're big and every Yocto build downloads all of them
[15:54:57] <danvet_> wtf
[15:55:03] <daniels> with the new nginx setup we can finally do that, so hopefully we'll have Mesa in a week or so
[15:55:20] <daniels> long-term we can find other hosts for the tarballs that don't cost the earth
[15:57:06] <daniels> but yeah, needs a style refresh, needs to be responsive, needs updated content, needs actual clear structure and separation of audience
[15:57:07] <mfilion> so daniels should we wait to see how mesa plays out and then have a game plan for the other sites?
[15:57:31] <daniels> mfilion: yeah but structure & visuals could definitely happen in parallel
[15:57:51] <daniels> so someone spinning up a separate Foundation site would be easy to do
[15:58:11] <danvet_> oh mesa pages from erik looks neat
[15:58:17] <daniels> and I think really valuable to help with sponsorship
[15:58:23] <mfilion> +1
[15:58:29] <daniels> danvet_: yep and all markdown powered
[15:58:36] <danvet_> well we have foundation.x.org already, redirects somewhere
[15:59:19] <danvet_> I think converting the main x.org wiki over to something tidy would also help
[15:59:28] <danvet_> or we'll have to move all the foundation content over
[15:59:57] <danvet_> I think we do Events/ BoardOfDirectors/ Policies/ and XorgFoundation/
[16:00:22] <danvet_> oh policies is within XorgFoundation
[16:01:22] <mfilion> daniels I think we could ask our designer for some assistance with x.org too, it's not like I'll have much work for him this summer anyway
[16:02:38] <mfilion> danvet_ agreed
[16:03:31] <danvet_> hm Khronos.mdwm in the root directory probably too
[16:03:42] <daniels> danvet_: moving the main wiki we can't do because it also has the tarballs
[16:03:47] <danvet_> that's also foundation business
[16:03:55] <daniels> not yet, anyway - needs to wait until we've sorted it out
[16:03:57] <danvet_> daniels, oh crap
[16:04:07] <daniels> we'll get there, but not this week :)
[16:04:16] <danvet_> so we could try to figure out foundation relevant content and then move just that to something shiny
[16:04:34] <danvet_> mfilion, do you have access to the x.org wiki git?
[16:05:07] <daniels> moving the main site would be good but tbh I think a new site should be built in parallel to the old wiki; preserve the old wiki in amber as a reference and not to break links, but not at all try to use its existing structure or content as it's all laughably out of date
[16:05:21] <daniels> think it's far more productive to just start from scratch and use the old as a reference
[16:05:47] <mfilion> danvet_ no idea, how can I check?
[16:06:07] <daniels> and yeah, for Foundation, just do a new site clean, get it prototyped in Pages, and we can figure the cutover
[16:06:10] <daniels> mfilion: you don't
[16:06:16] <mfilion> friendly reminder than /me is not that technical lol
[16:06:26] <mfilion> lol ok then
[16:06:39] <daniels> ping me an SSH public key on internal chat
[16:07:10] <mfilion> sure ok
[16:09:09] <mfilion> danvet_ have you seen the new gtk website? that's what I'd love to see for x.org, or at least something similar (modern, sleek, etc)
[16:10:56] <danvet_> link?
[16:11:23] <mfilion> danvet_ gtk.org
[16:11:23] <danvet_> mfilion, also I guess we should do a gitlab issue
[16:11:39] <danvet_> I just generated the list of files I touched, so we have a rough idea what probably should be included as foundation business
[16:14:01] <mfilion> nice ok
[16:19:16] <danvet_> https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xorgfoundation/bod-archive/-/issues/21
[16:20:32] <danvet_> a bunch of the directories are definitely pure chaos
[16:20:50] <danvet_> some areas we might need a solid dumping ground, like meeting minutes/irc logs
[16:20:58] <danvet_> but those are scrip generated
[16:21:08] <danvet_> a bunch of stuff probably also needs serious cleanup
[16:21:24] <danvet_> but I think the list there is all the board relevant content
[16:21:44] <danvet_> board or foundation
[16:22:24] <danvet_> we probably need dedicated bragging sheets for the big stuff like mesa, fd.o
[16:22:39] <danvet_> and hopefully we can also add "linux kernel development, but with modern tools" eventually
[16:23:05] <danvet_> but that project is a constant 1-2 years off it feels like
[16:26:12] <mfilion> already getting site refreshes for both the foundation and its projects will be a big big plus
[16:26:37] <danvet_> yup
[16:27:02] <danvet_> https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/ same glorious late 90s vibe
[16:27:20] <mfilion> haha wow indeed
[16:27:40] <danvet_> I think we just need to take the stuff erik is doing, and roll it out 2x
[16:27:47] <danvet_> for fd.o and x.org foundation
[16:28:19] <danvet_> same visual branding for fd.o and x.org foundation is probably good
[16:28:27] <danvet_> so it's clear it's the same org behind it now
[16:28:32] <mfilion> yes definitely
[16:29:50] <mfilion> danvet_ did you do a mouseover on the mesa gears on the new page?
[16:31:19] <danvet_> it.jumps.
[16:31:30] <danvet_> the rotating and frozen version don't line up exactly
[16:31:50] <mfilion> yeah work in progress but I like the idea
[16:32:50] <danvet_> it does definitely look a lot more slick than the old one
[16:33:07] <danvet_> I guess maybe we could have one overall theme here for some consistency
[16:33:25] <danvet_> and then frob the logo/main page design/theme a bit to suit?
[16:34:38] <mfilion> yeah good idea, that will work well for both consistency and branding
[16:37:59] * danvet_ made a note
[16:38:44] <danvet_> the website probably needs to be a new project, so it's public and people can at least send MR for changes
[16:39:08] <danvet_> we might want to allow slightly less wiki-style free-for-all editing on this polished thing, to avoid defacing accidents
[16:39:19] <mfilion> indeed
[16:42:52] <mfilion> right ok so I guess this is a good start for now, we can keep discussing in the coming weeks and see how the mesa one moves along

[16:55:08] [disconnected at Thu May 7 16:55:08 2020]