[22:47:06] [connected at Thu Aug 30 22:47:06 2018]
[22:47:17] [I have joined #xf-bod]
[23:01:04] <tlwoerner> +/'\
[23:01:08] <hwentlan> hello
[23:01:16] <tlwoerner> hey hwentlan back from the east coast?
[23:01:22] <hwentlan> back from the east coast
[23:01:30] <tlwoerner> how was it?
[23:01:35] <hwentlan> it was amazing... but i had to avoid peggy's cove... way too overrun
[23:01:53] <tlwoerner> sweet!
[23:02:08] <danvet> hi all
[23:02:08] <robclark> o/
[23:02:26] * robclark here.. (but doing 5 things in parallel as it has been all week)
[23:02:31] <hwentlan> tlwoerner: if you like nature hike down to polly cove instead (right next to peggy's cove)
[23:03:38] <tlwoerner> https://www.google.ca/maps/search/polly+cove+ns/@44.4886317,-63.9012162,15z/data=!3m1!4b1
[23:03:48] <tlwoerner> nice, i'll put it on my list next time i'm there :-)
[23:03:51] <hwentlan> that's the one
[23:04:49] <hwentlan> and check out 2 crows brewing in halifax if you like interesting beers
[23:04:49] * anholt here now
[23:05:02] <danvet> anholt, congrats!
[23:05:10] <danvet> we only gossiped last meeting :-)
[23:05:16] * anholt eyes /topic
[23:05:43] <danvet> it's updated when I start the logger ...
[23:06:08] <anholt> danvet: thanks!  things are going well, but I've been laying around the house with a baby instead of paying attention to basically anything software related.
[23:06:34] <danvet> keithp, Riastradh around too?
[23:06:40] <danvet> Agenda: xdc talks, xdc lunch, public liability insurance, sponsors, gsoc, evoc, xdc19, fd.o
[23:06:48] <danvet> lots of stuff this week again
[23:07:23] * tlwoerner congratulates anholt on the family addition!
[23:07:25] <danvet> bryce, around?
[23:07:46] <danvet> mupuf, ?
[23:08:13] <mupuf> sure
[23:08:49] <danvet> ok I guess let's get going
[23:09:05] <danvet> quick update on xdc talks: full program is now done, everything confirmed, workshop talks trickling in
[23:09:28] <danvet> I think we'll wait a bit more with scheduling so we can get the 2 tracks lined up reasonably well
[23:09:53] <danvet> oh, anything to add to the agenda btw?
[23:10:58] <danvet> ok next one
[23:11:22] <danvet> xdc lunch: samuel thinks it's not a good idea to go to the other place off campus with lots of restaurants
[23:11:55] <danvet> but what's he proposing that we sponsor sounds like deep fried frozen junk food
[23:12:35] <robclark> wasn't he recommending the next step up from there?  (I coiuld be wrong, I only skimmed it)
[23:12:37] <danvet> he also said that we can up the per person amount, 10-12 euro/person apparently a reasonable meal in a coruna
[23:12:42] <danvet> robclark, yeah
[23:12:57] <danvet> they've done 11€/person at a previous conference
[23:13:30] <danvet> Agenda += per diem travel
[23:14:25] <danvet> so if we go with that it'd be ~4600 USD (assuming 120 people)
[23:15:12] <danvet> to me the other options of sponsoring the standard junk seems silly, since then people can't even choose between the 6-ish on-campus canteens they apparently have
[23:15:14] <mupuf> I think we can assume we'll get to 120 people
[23:15:43] <robclark> hmm, up to 82 on the wiki
[23:15:58] <robclark> (although not sure how authoritative that ends up being)
[23:16:00] <danvet> last minute rush
[23:16:28] <danvet> so I think it's either people choose one of the canteens with junk, or we sponsor something slightly better
[23:16:28] <mupuf> yeah, usually most people add themselves at the end
[23:17:00] <robclark> I think if we end up w/ meal sponsoring being a more common thing we might need some sort of more formal mandatory registration
[23:17:10] <robclark> so we have a better idea how many to plan for
[23:17:57] <danvet> if the event is free registration is just mostly a miss I'd say
[23:18:01] <mupuf> robclark: totally agree with that
[23:18:03] <danvet> until 5 minutes before that
[23:19:10] <robclark> well, don't register, don't get a badge, don't get a meal sorta thing, I guess..
[23:19:24] <robclark> (or maybe get leftovers after everyone else)
[23:20:08] <tlwoerner> maybe follow the plumbers model? hand out $x-amount pre-paid credit cards. first $120 to show up at the event get a card
[23:20:11] <danvet> anholt, hwentlan thoughts?
[23:20:20] <tlwoerner> oops, first 120 (no $)
[23:20:28] <danvet> tlwoerner, it's not about sponsoring, it's about getting the food
[23:20:36] <danvet> on-site options are dire
[23:20:41] <danvet> off-site far away
[23:20:53] <danvet> if we decide to sponsor, we could get better food
[23:21:06] <hwentlan> is this xorg or igalia sponsoring the food?
[23:21:10] <danvet> us
[23:21:12] <danvet> well
[23:21:15] <danvet> our budget
[23:21:20] <danvet> I mean money isn't a problem
[23:21:39] <danvet> after the next agenda item we're looking at 40k xdc sponsoring this year
[23:21:47] <danvet> atm ~10k travel
[23:22:01] <danvet> and 15k for xdc itself (if we indulge on everything)
[23:22:30] <anholt> I was just looking at that.  if our incoming sponsorship is exceeding what we're putting out for the conf, I'm on +1 on making lunch good and quick
[23:22:33] <mupuf> danvet: wow, you outdid yourself in getting money!
[23:23:01] <mupuf> yep. I agree. I liked what happened at google because we could more easily mingle
[23:23:02] <hwentlan> wasn't aware of our xdc budget. if money isn't an issue and there's no good food options available within walking distance i'd say we go with samuel's suggestions
[23:23:07] <danvet> mupuf, tbh I didn't even try all that hard
[23:23:17] <hwentlan> and yeah, great work on the sponsorships
[23:23:18] <danvet> our sponsoring rates are dirt cheap, so everyone wants in
[23:23:30] <mupuf> danvet: that was apparently still more than needed :)
[23:23:50] <robclark> yeah, I'm also +1 for sponsoring lunch when there aren't good alternatives..
[23:24:10] <danvet> mupuf, past 20k or so I only asked more people simply to get our sponsors to reflect the entire community as best as possible
[23:24:10] <mupuf> +1 for me too
[23:25:09] <danvet> just to clarify: we're voting on 11€/person sponsored lunch now?
[23:25:48] <anholt> danvet: yes, +1 from me
[23:25:55] <hwentlan> +1
[23:26:04] <danvet> ok, done, I'll write mail
[23:26:09] <mupuf> danvet: thanks
[23:26:20] <robclark> danvet, yeah, that was what my +1 was for
[23:26:36] <danvet> ok
[23:26:40] * danvet +1 fwiw
[23:26:52] <danvet> next up is the public liability insurance
[23:27:04] <danvet> the sponsor we're still in talks with requires that
[23:27:08] <danvet> and seems like a good idea
[23:27:33] <anholt> it does seem like a good idea -- do we have any idea how complicated it will be to find?
[23:27:39] <danvet> I'd propose: a) we put this as a requirement onto our RFP page for next year https://www.x.org/wiki/Events/RFP/
[23:27:59] <mupuf> danvet: sounds good
[23:28:02] <danvet> b) approve the offer for ~290 EUR that Chema already solicited to get us covered (1M € max per event)
[23:28:02] <anholt> agreed
[23:28:13] <mupuf> yeah, I think this is sufficient!
[23:28:33] <anholt> oh, that's not bad.  great.
[23:29:01] <robclark> 290 EUR isn't bad, +1 for that..
[23:29:02] <tlwoerner> will this work for a conference without a formal registration?
[23:29:10] <robclark> yeah
[23:29:19] <robclark> or, yeah, good question
[23:29:24] <danvet> tlwoerner, it insurance the organizers against the public
[23:29:28] <mupuf> the other option proposed for half a million was 230 euros, so yeah, the difference is not massive
[23:29:34] <danvet> if you're drunk and screw up it won't pay
[23:29:48] <danvet> only if there's e.g. a hazard that the organizer caused
[23:29:57] <danvet> mupuf, yeah I figured it's meh
[23:29:59] <hwentlan> +1 for a) and b) for ~290 EUR
[23:30:03] <danvet> we can approve the higher, they can pick whatever
[23:30:09] <mupuf> danvet: ack
[23:30:10] <tlwoerner> okay, thanks for the clarification
[23:30:20] <mupuf> +1 for up to 300 EURs
[23:31:28] <danvet> robclark, anholt ?
[23:31:35] <anholt> +1
[23:31:42] <robclark> +1
[23:31:47] * danvet +1 too
[23:31:51] <danvet> ok I'll type more mails
[23:32:08] <danvet> and that means we can also ask spi to sign the sponsoring contract and hopefully have our 8th sponsor!
[23:32:20] <mupuf> ha ha, nice
[23:32:26] <mupuf> people will freak out though :o
[23:32:31] <danvet> yeah I'm just collecting trophies at this point
[23:32:46] <mupuf> well, the rest will pay for EVoCs
[23:33:02] <danvet> we're 100% volunteer/mentor limited on that :-/
[23:33:59] <mupuf> yeah, but it makes the model a bit more sustainable when you get extra money every year, and not just once 12 years ago
[23:34:25] <danvet> oh sure
[23:34:31] <mupuf> or probably more than 12 now
[23:34:39] <danvet> otoh gsoc payout seems to have funded us pretty well past few years
[23:34:53] <danvet> next up is travel request, we have a leftover one from 2 weeks ago
[23:35:07] <danvet> we approved flight + accomodation for a gsoc
[23:35:18] <danvet> but they also requested meal reimbursement
[23:35:27] <danvet> bryce checked with spi, per diem rates is what they want
[23:35:40] * danvet checks what the gsoc asked for
[23:35:45] <anholt> yay per diems!
[23:36:15] <danvet> btw bryce also got some links from the us state departement that spi uses to check these per diem rates for maximum allowed
[23:36:25] <danvet> links are on https://www.x.org/wiki/XorgFoundation/Policies/Reimbursement/
[23:36:27] <danvet> for next time around
[23:37:04] <mupuf> And if we have extra money, can we contract someone into making a new members website, including votes?
[23:37:23] <danvet> ok they're asking for 5 + 12 + 14 € per day (breakfast/lunch/dinner)
[23:37:32] <danvet> ofc no lunch on conference days
[23:37:33] <tlwoerner> mupuf: good idea
[23:37:42] <danvet> so somewhere below 200 total
[23:38:02] <danvet> it's well below the limit that the state dep link says for a coruna, spain (which iirc was 82usd per day)
[23:38:15] <tlwoerner> mupuf: have them organize all the login/credential/ssh keys etc too
[23:38:26] <danvet> Agenda += server incident
[23:38:29] * danvet bad today
[23:38:46] <danvet> I think we can approve this?
[23:39:18] <anholt> I'm in favor of a per diem for gsocs.  +1
[23:39:36] <mupuf> +1 for me too.
[23:39:45] <robclark> yeah, I guess +1 for reasonable per diem
[23:41:10] <hwentlan> +1 for reasonable per diem (like outlined above minus lunch on conference days)
[23:42:54] * danvet +1 too
[23:43:01] <danvet> and doing too many mails in parallel
[23:43:32] <danvet> ok we have like 6 more agenda items
[23:43:37] <danvet> no way to get through them all
[23:43:41] <danvet> any favourites?
[23:43:52] <danvet> I think all the stuff where we have to decide today is done ...
[23:44:02] <danvet> (or where it's at least really good we decide today)
[23:44:13] <danvet> leftover agenda: sponsors, gsoc, evoc, xdc19, fd.o, server incident
[23:44:39] <robclark> I guess we probably need to notify on server thing kinda asap
[23:44:49] <mupuf> agreed
[23:45:10] <robclark> I kinda wish we had a plan for replacing member system to send out at the same time.. but I think waiting for that to happen != ASAP
[23:45:12] <tlwoerner> and gsoc just ended (or is about to end) wouldn't mind knowing how it went
[23:45:34] <mupuf> robclark: we can say that we are working on making a replacement for it
[23:45:39] <mupuf> and we stop slacking about it
[23:45:54] <danvet> yeah volunteers for handling the server incident issue would be good
[23:45:58] * danvet not volunteering
[23:46:02] <danvet> pretty busy typing mails :-)
[23:46:17] <danvet> mupuf, I wouldn't say we're working on making a replacement
[23:46:18] * mupuf remembers Bart saying he could get students to work on that.... in 2013
[23:46:24] <danvet> given our speed at this stuff, that means something in 2028
[23:46:31] <mupuf> ha ha
[23:46:32] <danvet> yup
[23:46:32] * anholt remembers trying to start on a replacement a few times
[23:46:33] <tlwoerner> lol
[23:46:41] <danvet> so if we have someting concrete, we can talk about it
[23:46:45] <robclark> yeah, I think "looking for someone who has bandwidth to work on server" woudl be more accurate than "working on.."
[23:46:58] <danvet> yup, anything else is just not honest
[23:47:07] <hwentlan> what's the server incident? i'm still catching up on emails and outlook seems painfully slow atm
[23:47:11] <mupuf> robclark: right. But maybe we can find something actually maintained and that already does the job
[23:47:21] <danvet> hwentlan, a research broke in through the open barn dorn
[23:47:23] <danvet> *door
[23:47:24] <anholt> I browsed for something actually maintained recently, and was unimpressed
[23:47:24] <danvet> more or less
[23:47:41] <danvet> anholt, yeah I'm not sure something else would be better really
[23:47:49] <danvet> and anything we host is risky
[23:48:06] <danvet> I think one thing we can and perhaps should do is drop the 600+ old member entries
[23:48:14] <danvet> iirc we're not forced to keep them all on the books
[23:48:20] <danvet> reduces at least a bit the impact
[23:48:27] <tlwoerner> is the member system bad enough to warrant funding its work?
[23:48:38] <robclark> mupuf, anything else would need some work to learn our voting algorithm, and other processes..  we might find it easier to amend the bylaws for processes to work more like some existing member sw package
[23:48:53] <mupuf> robclark: that is likely
[23:49:07] <robclark> danvet, yeah, defn purge old member records ASAP..
[23:49:14] <danvet> robclark, anyone volunteering?
[23:49:14] <anholt> robclark: voting was specifically a thing I couldn't find in any open source membership systems.
[23:49:26] <danvet> probably "just" needs a php page that expires anyone inactive for more than 1 year
[23:49:28] <robclark> and maybe we could get by with collecting *less* info also
[23:49:52] <mupuf> agreed. No idea why we collect so much information
[23:50:08] <mupuf> who the heck needs my employer's address and etc...
[23:50:24] <mupuf> more is better: email, affiliation, full name, website
[23:50:44] <anholt> in my ideal system, we'd delegate profile stuff to gitlab/github/google/whatever.
[23:50:51] <mupuf> yep, agreed
[23:50:53] <tlwoerner> mupuf: "more" in a "less" sort of way?
[23:50:58] <anholt> danvet: I could take on the php page to expire.
[23:51:09] <mupuf> tlwoerner: more safety by having less data :p
[23:51:12] <hwentlan> agreeing with anholt
[23:51:24] <robclark> danvet, *maybe* I can find some time this weekend, since I've looked a bit at the php.. the good news is it is a 3 day weekend, the bad news is I have a backlife of $reallife stuff I need to catch up on since been super busy last few weeks
[23:51:26] <danvet> anholt, thx
[23:51:33] <robclark> anholt, thx
[23:51:41] * anholt can't remember if we actually have the info to know when someone expired.  iirc it's just a flag.
[23:51:43] <robclark> s/backlife/backlog/
[23:51:53] <danvet> anholt, I think a link to an expiry page that only shows up for members with membership admin rights (there's a column for that somewhere) would be perfect
[23:51:59] <robclark> yeah, I think a flag..
[23:52:03] <anholt> would we be ok with a mid-election-cycle "you haven't reactivated, so purge"?
[23:52:19] <danvet> anholt, we could purge before we inactive everyone in the next election
[23:52:34] <danvet> gives people almost a year to reactivate their account
[23:52:41] <anholt> danvet: I'd say once now, then introduce that as process for future elections?
[23:52:50] <danvet> anholt, sounds good
[23:53:32] <robclark> yeah, +1
[23:55:47] <danvet> anholt, "Admin Flag" on the member admin page
[23:55:57] <anholt> danvet: what about it?
[23:56:06] <danvet> I hacked up a input box for this since I can't do raw sql, for the last election
[23:56:20] <danvet> anholt, the flag to figure out who's got member admin powers
[23:56:33] <anholt> have current admins be able to update who is admin without having to prod sql directly?  sounds reasonable.
[23:56:38] <danvet> I regret to having hacked on this 1y ago or so ...
[23:56:43] <danvet> anholt, yup
[23:56:48] <anholt> ok, I'll see about htat.
[23:57:33] <danvet> hwentlan, mupuf ok with the plan for now that anholt hacks up an expiry page and we discuss this more next meeting?
[23:57:41] <mupuf> +1
[23:57:44] <danvet> time's running out
[23:57:44] <hwentlan> +1
[23:58:29] <danvet> hopefully next time around we can start with evoc/gsoc and not so much paperwork-y things
[23:58:36] <robclark> (+1 if you didn't catch my early +1)
[23:58:41] <danvet> robclark, I think I have it
[23:58:45] * danvet +1 too
[23:59:01] <danvet> any last things before I close the minutes?
[23:59:20] * anholt would rather get out of this hospital cafeteria asap.
[23:59:57] <danvet> ok, thx everyone for joining!
[00:00:10] <danvet> church bell is ringing over here now :-)
[00:01:12] <tlwoerner> wasn't a mdnavare going to be joining?
[00:01:54] <danvet> yeah she said, but apparently missed

[00:04:28] [disconnected at Fri Aug 31 00:04:28 2018]