[22:56:45] [connected at Thu Apr 26 22:56:45 2018]
[22:56:56] [I have joined #xf-bod]
[22:57:21] * anholt is here now
[22:57:49] <Riastradh> Hi!
[22:58:07] <bryce> hi
[22:58:23] <danvet> hi all!
[22:58:35] <keithp> ok, new members subscribed, retired members unsubscribed
[22:58:40] <danvet> keithp, thx
[22:58:55] * keithp doesn't want to know how many passwords ff has cached; it appears to be a large number though
[22:59:20] <anholt> keithp: got the members@foundation.x.org one, by chance?
[22:59:47] <danvet> anholt, I thought that's managed by the magic php?
[22:59:57] <tlwoerner> keithp: you don't update to a new computer every once in a while? or do the passwords come along?
[23:00:00] <mupuf> hi everyone!
[23:00:05] <egbert_> hi guys!
[23:00:08] <anholt> I've been getting moderator notices for that list since my last time on the board, would like to either have the password or not be a moderator.
[23:00:18] <keithp> tlwoerner: I think I must have copied some browser state; bookmarks and the like
[23:00:57] <danvet> maybe keithp's magic passwd works on members too?
[23:01:01] <danvet> https://foundation.x.org/mailman/listinfo/members
[23:01:11] <robclark> o/
[23:01:32] <keithp> danvet: looks like it; isn't that list managed automagically though? Sure should be...
[23:01:41] <danvet> keithp, I hope so
[23:01:48] <danvet> but there's still admins
[23:01:50] <keithp> there are 90 members of the list at present
[23:01:53] <danvet> I guess we could just drop them all
[23:02:14] <danvet> keithp, exact match with the php db
[23:02:15] <keithp> this list is run by anholt and adg5f
[23:02:32] * keithp would hate to interfere with other people's mailing lists :-)
[23:02:35] <danvet> yeah I guess no one ever moderated it
[23:02:47] <Riastradh> I'm having trouble logging into gabe.fd.o to take a look at the ledger; am I doing something wrong, or is my ~/.ssh/id_rsa.pub wrong?  Should have hash: 4096 SHA256:j9cPHjcm9EKtx76YyLrW8/6Auh7fK3Djzbpwj3PwTac riastradh+fd.o@keemun.local (RSA)
[23:03:24] <danvet> Riastradh, what's your login name?
[23:03:26] <robclark> danvet, did anyone ping hwentlan, btw?
[23:03:34] <danvet> but I probably can't check that
[23:03:35] <Riastradh> danvet: Should be `riastradh'.
[23:03:37] <danvet> robclark, yeah
[23:03:49] <danvet> me
[23:03:55] <robclark> k..
[23:04:06] <egbert_> i just wanted to congratulate the new and reelected board members.
[23:04:06] <egbert_> ... and ack the election results.
[23:04:06] <egbert_> anholt, keithp - congratulations!
[23:04:14] <robclark> I guess then he must be setting up irc client for new irc network ;-)
[23:04:22] <keithp> egbert_: Congratulations back!
[23:04:24] * danvet throws in congrats too
[23:05:37] <mupuf> congrats, everyone!
[23:05:40] <hwentlan> hi, does this work?
[23:05:46] <danvet> yup
[23:05:50] <danvet> hwentlan, welcome on the bod
[23:05:55] <Riastradh> Congratulations!
[23:05:59] <danvet> ok we're complete, let's get this show rolling
[23:06:04] <danvet> Agenda: elections/ramp-up, treasurer's report, gsoc
[23:06:08] <danvet> stuff to add?
[23:06:38] <tlwoerner> maybe over the next year someone can look into sorting out the web stuff for next election?
[23:06:46] <bryce> Riastradh, you're having trouble checking out the archives git repo?
[23:07:00] <danvet> tlwoerner, which web stuff for election?
[23:07:01] <bryce> Riastradh, or problems with the gpg key decrypting the Finances/ dir?
[23:07:17] <robclark> danvet, tbh, I would mind if someone wanted to volunteer to help w/ EVoC since I'm not having as much time as I should for it..
[23:07:19] <Riastradh> bryce: Former.  Just tried `ssh gabe.fd.o' and got prompted for a password.
[23:07:31] <Riastradh> ssh -vvv reveals my public key authentication was rejected.
[23:07:34] <tlwoerner> danvet: well, it seemed like there was a lot of "do you have the password? who has the password? php!! how does this stuff work?"
[23:07:49] <danvet> tlwoerner, it's the same story every year
[23:08:02] <danvet> I don't think the underlying tech changes our ability to remember passwords
[23:08:08] <robclark> tlwoerner, tbh half the issue is that new people are running the election each time, almost by definition
[23:08:15] <danvet> and the php hacking is kinda a trill :-)
[23:08:22] <danvet> yeah that too
[23:08:28] <danvet> we're getting better at writing docs
[23:08:31] <bryce> Riastradh, ah.  no idea, I've also had random troubles with fdo the last few months.
[23:08:34] <danvet> then not remembering where they are
[23:08:45] <robclark> heheh
[23:08:46] <danvet> Riastradh, #freedesktop on freenode
[23:09:12] <danvet> on that, huge thanks to robclark for running the election show
[23:09:23] <mupuf> robclark: thanks a lot for doing it :D
[23:09:28] <tlwoerner> agreed! good job
[23:09:37] <robclark> thx
[23:09:49] <bryce> also congrats and welcome new board members, and a (quite tardy) ack of the election results myself
[23:10:11] <hwentlan> thanks
[23:11:15] <danvet> for ramp-up I've tried to collect duties of the board a bit and what all needs to be changed/updated on transitions
[23:11:21] <danvet> https://www.x.org/wiki/BoardOfDirectors/Duties/
[23:11:30] <bryce> danvet, yeah stuff is kind of scattered around, I often randomly poke around finding useful stuff hiding in obscure directories :-)
[23:11:45] <danvet> hwentlan, anholt ^^ gabe.fd.o access and gpg for the Finances/ stuff is the only missing thing I think
[23:11:56] <mupuf> bryce: I should put the GSoC application there
[23:12:03] <danvet> mupuf, yes pls
[23:12:18] <anholt> danvet: I've got gabe access.
[23:12:39] <danvet> gpg key for the board git financials might be good, bryce can fix you up
[23:12:47] <danvet> just for redundancy
[23:15:23] <bryce> (see the README file in archives for the git-crypt info)
[23:15:26] <danvet> bryce, for the xorg.git I don't think you need anything beyond fd.o ssh account
[23:15:47] <bryce> danvet, yeah I just re-tested and it seems to work now
[23:15:58] <danvet> yeah fd.o is flaky
[23:16:11] <danvet> do we have anything else with transition/new bod members
[23:16:15] <bryce> problem I've usually had isn't ssh access but permissions on the serverside.  but that might be just the archives repo
[23:16:30] <danvet> oh, huge thanks to outgoing members egbert_ and agd5f ofc, I put that in the minutes already
[23:16:32] <anholt> as a new member, what git stuff should I be looking at?
[23:16:41] <danvet> ssh://gabe.freedesktop.org/srv/bod.x.org/archives.git
[23:16:55] <danvet> I hid the link a bit on the Duties page, now more obvious
[23:17:04] <danvet> that's where we try to store all the bod stuff
[23:17:14] <danvet> well, those bits that can't be on the public wiki
[23:17:24] <anholt> woo, permissions
[23:17:35] <danvet> :-/
[23:18:00] <danvet> there's also the private board archives, you should have access when you're on the list
[23:18:53] * anholt grants self permissions
[23:19:12] <hwentlan> i'm getting a password prompt when trying to ssh gabe.freedesktop.org
[23:19:40] <danvet> hwentlan, yeah that's a different account
[23:19:49] <danvet> you need fd.o admins (or anholt) to give you that iirc
[23:20:30] <hwentlan> i see, anholt, mind granting me permissions if you can?
[23:20:37] <anholt> admin so far: added self to xorgfoundation.  added hwentlan to xorgfoundation.  add gabe access to hwentlan and Riastradh.
[23:20:45] <anholt> these should propagate in <8 min
[23:21:33] <danvet> anholt, hwentlan, https://foundation.x.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/board/ if you want to read up on stuff
[23:22:29] <danvet> I think we're mostly sorted ...
[23:22:34] <danvet> bryce, treasurer's report?
[23:22:40] <danvet> I've seen v2, didn't read it yet
[23:22:46] <Riastradh> The numbers add up in v2!
[23:23:11] <bryce> yes, SPI sent the final data for 2017 including the missing 2nd half (where most of our main transactions were)
[23:23:33] <bryce> Riastradh, yeah the discrepancy was the total wasn't deducting the 5% we give SPI.
[23:23:39] <danvet> the 6k donations, does that include one of the gold sponsors already?
[23:24:05] <bryce> danvet, good eye!  In fact I wanted to ask you the same question.
[23:24:21] <bryce> danvet, it's just listed as "Donation", no detail.
[23:24:24] <danvet> I have no idea :-(
[23:24:27] <danvet> ugh
[23:24:41] <danvet> oh well, I filed the ticket, let's see what happens
[23:24:48] <bryce> there was a $1000 general donation that month, so $1k I'm guessing is that
[23:24:56] <danvet> for context: atm we only get monthly lump sums from spi (and somewhat delayed)
[23:25:01] <bryce> the other $5k dunno
[23:25:04] <danvet> bryce, what's general donation?
[23:25:15] <bryce> danvet, sorry general sponsorship 
[23:25:16] <danvet> just donations to spi, and they hand it out to their projects?
[23:25:28] <danvet> oh the website thing?
[23:26:31] <bryce> yeah, DealsLand said they paid us 9/20/2017.  SPI listed us as receiving $6k in donations the month of 9/2017.
[23:27:09] <bryce> DealsLand says they paid $1000.  So hoping you know where the other $5k came from
[23:27:16] <danvet> no idea
[23:27:25] <danvet> that's before I even started hunting for sponsors
[23:27:39] <danvet> and pretty sure they all said "we'll only be able to pay FY2018"
[23:27:42] <bryce> yeah, I don't have any record for anything in that amount that month either
[23:27:48] <danvet> oh well
[23:27:50] <danvet> we got money
[23:28:27] <bryce> one other discrepancy mentioned in the treasurer report is that the X.org assets were transferred over by Stuart in two chunks
[23:28:31] <tlwoerner> don't look a gift horse in the mouth :-)
[23:28:49] <bryce> the first (big) chunk, $33,000 landed in 2016, and is confirmed.
[23:28:51] <robclark> hmm, for sponsorship stuff, I think we need to sort out w/ SPI how to get a bit more positive feedback..
[23:29:19] <bryce> the second chunk was $391.53, and I have Stuart's BofA receipts for it being paid, it should have landed in 2017/03/20 or thereabouts
[23:29:26] <bryce> but no indication of it in the SPI data.
[23:29:53] <bryce> robclark, indeed!
[23:30:29] <danvet> robclark, yeah I started nagging them
[23:30:41] <danvet> bryce, hm
[23:30:42] <bryce> I've been asking SPI for this practically since we joined, but I think I'm on mute now.  :-D
[23:30:54] * robclark a bit unsure how it can be *this* difficult from SPI side..
[23:31:05] <bryce> I've cc'd danvet in, hoping that since he's our official rep with them maybe he'll have more sway
[23:31:29] <robclark> good idea
[23:31:30] <danvet> bryce, did you poke spi about the 391.53?
[23:31:38] <danvet> I mean with the amount and transaction date they should be able to find it
[23:31:44] <bryce> not yet, I wanted to check with you about the $5k first
[23:31:53] <danvet> well I can't help you there :-/
[23:31:56] <danvet> like seriously no idea
[23:32:55] <danvet> only igalia, google and intel sign up fairly early, and none of those would have paid in 2017
[23:33:10] <danvet> so Sept 2017 doesn't make sense to me
[23:33:21] <danvet> that's like before XDC
[23:33:28] <danvet> I didn't even start looking for sponsors back then
[23:33:43] <bryce> there were a few other irregularities in the data (some of our XDC expenses listed as Misc., the rest listed as "Meetups:Accomondation", etc.) so could chalk it up to a simple mistake
[23:33:45] <robclark> bryce, anyways, other than lack of data from SPI, which there isn't much we can immediately do anything about, +1 for the v2 report
[23:33:56] <bryce> thanks
[23:34:05] <danvet> yeah, I think it's best we approve this as is
[23:34:10] <danvet> and chase down SPI separately
[23:34:33] <danvet> now that I somewhat understand what's amiss, I can bring it up in the agenda
[23:34:48] <danvet> bryce, do you want to file the ticket for the 391.53 from stuart?
[23:34:54] <danvet> you know the details there better
[23:34:57] <danvet> but pls cc me
[23:35:00] <bryce> I will take the action to follow up on SPI with the #2 transfer, and more detail on the 9/2017 donation
[23:35:11] <bryce> danvet, yes, will do
[23:35:12] <danvet> ok, thanks
[23:35:43] <danvet> +1 on the report, thanks very much for all the wrangling with spi
[23:36:15] <bryce> anyway, despite all the above, I actually think the report is pretty solid.  I was able to piece together a LOT of stuff based on our own tracked info.  I think it is good to be sent out to members.
[23:36:19] <hwentlan> +1 on the report. still getting familiar with it but looks reasonable.
[23:36:40] <bryce> of course I give it my +1 as well :-)
[23:37:48] <danvet> mupuf, anholt keithp Riastradh ?
[23:37:56] <keithp> bryce: someday spi will have competent accounting practices? +1 from me
[23:38:06] <mupuf> +1
[23:38:07] <anholt> +1
[23:38:22] <danvet> bryce, I'll add another action for you to send it out to members@
[23:38:57] <danvet> final item: mupuf on gsoc?
[23:39:05] <mupuf> we got two students!
[23:39:12] <bryce> fwiw, just general info - we do receive individual transactions for donations sent through Click & Pay, but get no confirmations for PayPay donations or donations via check/wire transfer
[23:39:13] <keithp>  \o/
[23:39:13] <mupuf> the results got announced earlier this week
[23:39:26] <mupuf> but seriously, I sense a trend here
[23:39:33] <mupuf> we are not getting as many students as we used to
[23:39:48] <mupuf> and I am afraid I may be the reason: less advertising
[23:39:51] <danvet> not enough pr
[23:39:52] <danvet> ?
[23:39:55] <keithp> gsoc is getting spread pretty thin too
[23:40:10] <mupuf> keithp: we only got 4 proposals
[23:40:16] <mupuf> and 2 good ones
[23:40:21] <mupuf> but they are quality ones
[23:40:58] <Riastradh> Some of the studentship is just unpredictable variation, I think.  Last year The NetBSD Foundation got something like two students, and they weren't great; this year we got nine.  Don't think we changed any advertising, though!
[23:41:02] <danvet> well on the plus side, seanpaul and me managed to get 1 of the 2 kernel outreachy slots for another dri-devel internship
[23:41:19] <mupuf> yeah, that is nice :)
[23:41:35] <keithp> oh, that's great
[23:41:35] <mupuf> Riastradh: fair-enough
[23:41:46] <mupuf> but as a rule, we really are bad at communication
[23:41:48] <danvet> outreachy is doing an entirely new web-page, so maybe the org overhead will get better
[23:42:04] <danvet> but atm it's definitely worse, the UX of the website is not so great
[23:42:12] <mupuf> I used to post all our talks and main blog posts on G+, but not anymore...
[23:42:13] * danvet got lost countless times
[23:42:53] <bryce> mupuf, don't blame yourself.  Inkscape got 2 slots but our student apps were few and poor, so we ended up taking 0.  Wasn't for lack of advertising, I think maybe GSoC is not as popular with students as it once was?
[23:43:07] <mupuf> bryce: maybe
[23:43:17] <danvet> or it's more cloud and web these days?
[23:43:18] <mupuf> or it is the reduction in funding?
[23:43:30] <danvet> otoh for outreachy I think mozilla filled like 15 slots
[23:43:34] <mupuf> well, things just work also, nowadays
[23:43:36] <mupuf> mostly
[23:43:38] <danvet> (which they also paid for)
[23:43:38] <robclark> didn't GSoC switch to pay adjusted for local cost of living?
[23:43:44] <mupuf> so, it is even harder to get into it
[23:43:45] <Riastradh> robclark: Yes.
[23:44:07] <danvet> yeah that might be too, makes it less massively attractive financially for many folks
[23:44:33] <tlwoerner> we'll have to wait until https://developers.google.com/open-source/gsoc/resources/stats gets updated for 2018 (unless someone knows the numbers)
[23:44:35] <robclark> I would suspect that is a factor..
[23:45:12] <bryce> anyone happen to know the equivalent $/hr that students would make?
[23:45:38] <keithp> I think we can be happy that gsoc has had a good run so far, and provided us with interesting people and projects for many years.
[23:45:49] <danvet> definitely
[23:45:51] <tlwoerner> https://developers.google.com/open-source/gsoc/help/student-stipends
[23:46:10] <keithp> we can't expect it to last forever, heck, even X may stop being relevant some day...
[23:46:29] * tlwoerner gasps
[23:46:52] <danvet> we'll keep the domain
[23:46:56] <danvet> it's a pretty cool one :-)
[23:47:06] <Riastradh> Heh.  What's the most someone has offered for the domain?
[23:47:12] <danvet> you can't sell it
[23:47:16] <keithp> I don't think we can sell it
[23:47:18] <Riastradh> No?
[23:47:19] <Riastradh> Huh.
[23:47:20] <danvet> no
[23:47:26] <Riastradh> org rules or something?
[23:47:29] <danvet> yup
[23:47:47] <danvet> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-letter_second-level_domain
[23:47:53] <bryce> $6000 / (40 hr * 12 wks) = $12.50/hr
[23:49:27] <danvet> I guess we can try with "more pr" next year and see what happens
[23:49:36] <mupuf> danvet: yeah
[23:49:50] <keithp> writing up some projects for applications to work on can also help
[23:49:55] <mupuf> I hope I will finally stop being so busy at work to have more energy to spend on this
[23:49:59] <danvet> and perhaps see how this outreachy-in-gfx thing works out
[23:50:21] <keithp> yeah, if we transitioned to having more outreachy projects than gsoc, it wouldn't be a bad thing :-)
[23:50:23] <danvet> but with dri-devel we're heavily relying on kernel efforts for filtering, I don't think we can easily pull that off on our own
[23:51:03] <keithp> I think we'd need at least 3-4 of our own projects to make it work, given overhead and ability for the contributors to collaborate that seems to help other projects
[23:51:05] <danvet> applicants go through the staging initiation firedrill, then we pick them up with some dri-devel cocci tasks and plan a project with them or so
[23:51:33] <danvet> yeah for the applicant phase you need critical mass I think
[23:52:27] <danvet> ok, anything else, or time to close?
[23:52:40] <anholt> getting gpg added to git-crypt?
[23:52:50] <danvet> hwentlan, anholt btw I'll dig out some board@ mails with stuff that's kinda still relevant I think
[23:52:55] <danvet> anholt, chat with bryce 
[23:53:01] * danvet and gpg don't go together
[23:53:03] * anholt went through board@ for the last month
[23:53:21] <danvet> yeah, that's not where the dead bodies are :-)
[23:53:40] <bryce> anholt, yes point me at your gpg key I'll add it to the ring
[23:54:13] <Riastradh> bryce: Can you say how you produced the financial report from the ledger?
[23:54:51] <bryce> (for note - I believe anyone with git-crypt access can add more people, so no bottleneck other than knowing the command to run)
[23:55:05] <bryce> Riastradh, sure, what specifically do you want to know?
[23:56:03] <bryce> basically I collected all the info into the xorg.ledger file (90% of the work), then made a short pyledger script to generate the tabulated data.
[23:56:16] <Riastradh> bryce: I tried `ledger -f xorg.ledger --end 2017-12-31 balance', and the number I get for, e.g., Assets:Xorg:SPI Savings is different from the FY2017 number in the report.
[23:57:25] <bryce> Riastradh, ah let me git push ;-)
[23:57:40] <Riastradh> With TNF, I have a makefile with some one-liners that produce all the reports we have so it's easy to reproduce.  (I copy the numbers over by hand into <https://www.NetBSD.org/foundation/reports/financial/2017.html>, but ledger does all the arithmetic.)
[23:58:09] <bryce> oh... right, I can't git push to fdo.
[23:58:23] <bryce> Counting objects: 57, done.
[23:58:23] <bryce> Delta compression using up to 8 threads.
[23:58:23] <bryce> Compressing objects: 100% (51/51), done.
[23:58:23] <bryce> Writing objects: 100% (57/57), 2.05 MiB | 0 bytes/s, done.
[23:58:24] <bryce> Total 57 (delta 19), reused 0 (delta 0)
[23:58:25] <bryce> error: unable to write sha1 filename ./objects/56/0eea94f5ec59fbb9d2f352e1ea6a57475206a5: Permission denied
[23:58:27] <bryce> error: unable to write sha1 filename ./objects/16/e1f466219e6228c2fdf87d964be4f2610cf381: Permission denied
[23:58:29] <bryce> To ssh://gabe.freedesktop.org/srv/bod.x.org/archives.git
[23:58:31] <bryce>  ! [remote rejected] master -> master (unable to migrate objects to permanent storage)
[23:58:33] <bryce> error: failed to push some refs to 'ssh://gabe.freedesktop.org/srv/bod.x.org/archives.git'
[23:58:35] <Riastradh> Heh.  Oops.
[23:58:38] <bryce> been having trouble pushing to fdo the last few months, something with permissions
[23:58:44] <Riastradh> anholt?  Can you fix?
[23:59:12] <anholt> I see objects dirs in the git missing group write.
[23:59:27] <bryce> anholt, owned by?
[23:59:54] <anholt> bryce:xorgfoundation or danvet:xorgfoundation
[00:00:29] <danvet> ugh, this happens like all the time
[00:00:38] <danvet> then we need to beg admins to fix it up
[00:00:41] <Riastradh> I guess you don't need my approval for the treasurer's report, but it would be nice if it were reproducible.  Anyway, gotta run now!
[00:00:56] <danvet> anholt, not sure why, maybe some sticky group bits are missing
[00:00:59] <bryce> fixed mine
[00:01:04] <tlwoerner> who are the fd.o admins?
[00:01:22] <danvet> bryce, what's the cmdline again?
[00:01:38] <bryce> Riastradh, thanks I appreciate your doublechecking.  I'll ping you once the stuff gets pushed
[00:01:48] <Riastradh> bryce: Thanks!
[00:01:52] <anholt> danvet: chmod g+w /srv/bod.x.org/archives.git/objects/* I think
[00:01:57] <anholt> you're the remaining one there
[00:01:59] <bryce> danvet, chmod -R g+w /srv/bod.x.org/archives.git/objects
[00:02:18] * danvet added an -R
[00:02:26] <danvet> ok done
[00:02:34] <anholt> looks clean now
[00:02:34] <bryce> danvet, what's your umask?
[00:02:41] <danvet> anyway, it's over clock, I'm closing the mtg
[00:02:47] <danvet> thanks everyone for hangning out
[00:02:47] <bryce> ok, pushed!
[00:02:49] <keithp> ttfn!

[00:02:53] [disconnected at Fri Apr 27 00:02:53 2018]