[22:38:41] [connected at Thu Jul 21 22:38:41 2016]
[22:38:52] [I have joined #xf-bod]
[22:39:08] <danvet> me accidentally shot the secretary
[22:59:47] <egbert> good evening!
[23:00:03] <keithp> Hi egbert!
[23:00:18] <danvet> hi all
[23:00:18] <egbert> hi keithp!
[23:00:22] <egbert> hi all!
[23:00:52] <stukreit> hi!
[23:01:16] <mupuf> hi!
[23:01:32] <marcoz> hi!
[23:02:07] <danvet> robclark, around?
[23:02:13] <robclark> o/
[23:02:36] <danvet> I guess we're all then, whot, alex and bryce are all away
[23:02:41] <danvet> Agenda: gsoc, evoc, spi transfers, logo usage, xdc
[23:02:43] <danvet> anything else?
[23:03:20] <robclark> khronos/cts/adpter-agreement stuff?  If there is anything to add on that?
[23:03:47] <danvet> after you're reply I guess not really, for now ...
[23:03:58] <danvet> mupuf, gsoc, anything special?
[23:04:15] <mupuf> danvet: nothing
[23:04:28] <danvet> sounds good ;-)
[23:04:48] <mupuf> I guess we really need to contact Khronos with our concerns
[23:04:53] <mupuf> and ask them what they want us to do
[23:04:58] <danvet> for evoc we have the proposal with the question whether part-time is ok or not ...
[23:05:13] <danvet> marcoz, I guess you want a proper vote that evoc is meant to be full time?
[23:05:31] * mupuf thinks it is a real issue, especially since they are unknown AFAIR
[23:05:37] <marcoz> danvet, yes
[23:05:47] <mupuf> didn't we add the requirement than they had to be known before they could get an evoc?
[23:05:58] <egbert> yes, that
[23:06:03] <marcoz> mupuf: yes
[23:06:05] <egbert> s what i recall as well
[23:06:47] <egbert> with evoc we are flexible but i would be more comfortable to be flexible if we knew the people
[23:07:29] <robclark> my $0.02, it perhaps sorta has to depend a bit on the student's assesment of their coarseload..   and I think I prefer part-time / overlap at beginning of term, rather than at end where it is conflicting with final exams..
[23:07:30] <egbert> with 'know' i of course mean some prior contribution. nothing more
[23:07:40] <robclark> right
[23:08:11] <robclark> (man, I cannot spel gud today)
[23:09:08] <keithp> if we take the 'v' in evoc seriously, then we should expect participants to not be also full-time students
[23:09:22] <danvet> hm https://www.x.org/wiki/XorgEVoC/ is already pretty clear:
[23:09:34] <keithp> otherwise it should be called the 'endless work study of code'
[23:09:38] <danvet> "typically be for a period of three to four months of contiguous nearly-full-time work"
[23:09:41] <danvet> yeah
[23:09:55] <danvet> so +1 from me on not making an exception here
[23:10:41] <danvet> non-full-time internships imo don't make much sense
[23:10:50] <keithp> I agree. +1
[23:11:04] <egbert> yes, +1
[23:11:34] <stukreit> I have no vote but am glad to see this convergence of opinion
[23:11:59] <danvet> and evoc can happen whenever, specifically to accommodate different course-free schedules of various universities all over the globe
[23:12:09] <danvet> mupuf, robclark?
[23:12:13] <mupuf> +1
[23:12:17] <danvet> we need all the votes today for a decision ;-)
[23:12:23] <egbert> stukreit: right. i'd rather apply felxibility to the start of the term
[23:12:52] <marcoz> stukreit: how flexible? case-by-case?
[23:13:07] <mupuf> I would tell the student that it is too late but his work is not lost, he just has to wait for when he will have enough vacation
[23:13:15] <robclark> I sorta wish there is *something* we could do.. I mean EVoC was meant to accommodate different course-schedules, and this is sorta a course-schedule issue..
[23:13:29] <mupuf> and he should work on th eproject slowly in the mean time if he wants us to believe he can do it
[23:13:37] <danvet> robclark, there's never free time at all in the year for the student?
[23:13:53] <robclark> I guess w/ current EVoC rules, we'd have to reject..  but we can also improve/change the rules..
[23:14:00] <robclark> danvet, I guess that is a good question..
[23:14:13] <danvet> I mean with all the universities/colleges I know of there is
[23:14:16] <robclark> if it was the case that they had enough vacation time, but was spread across the year, that could work..
[23:14:20] <danvet> and the only thing we need to do is move the evoc
[23:14:27] <stukreit> marcoz: ?? I advocate inflexibility, ie not yielding on the full time committment
[23:14:33] <danvet> which is the really big point of evoc, it's not tied to us summer
[23:14:56] <danvet> stukreit, you meant robclark?
[23:15:07] <robclark> if it could be split up into several month-long chunks, perhaps that could work..
[23:15:33] <robclark> marcoz I guess meant me..
[23:16:02] <marcoz> stukreit: sorry, that was meant for egbert
[23:16:03] <danvet> split sounds to me like 1 months to ramp up, forget it all, 1 month to ramp up, forget it all
[23:16:13] <danvet> happens even to me when coding on stuff and then get distracted
[23:16:16] <robclark> yeah, not quite ideal..
[23:16:34] <marcoz> i'm with being less flexible.  At least once we were very flexible and it ended up causing more frustration than less
[23:16:36] <danvet> robclark, so, what's your call?
[23:16:46] <robclark> otoh I'm looking for an answer that doesn't disqualify a whole country ;-)
[23:17:13] <robclark> danvet, I guess it doesn't hurt to follow up w/ student and find out what the year-round schedule is, maybe there is a longer vacation or something..
[23:17:35] <mupuf> yes
[23:17:38] <danvet> well the hung vote is on whether we're ok with part time or not
[23:17:50] <mupuf> I agree, we need to know if he could have the time some time
[23:17:51] <danvet> it wasn't whether we'll reject the student outright
[23:18:13] <mupuf> if not, I vote for rejecting for now, telling the student to prove himself first and then he may get a shorter EVoC
[23:18:19] <mupuf> if there is no other way
[23:18:21] <robclark> I guess I'm the only one who was in favor of allowing part-time...  well I guess alex voiced support on mailing list..
[23:18:39] <mupuf> yeah, I am pretty against it
[23:18:48] <danvet> robclark, if you want we can vote again next week, and you'll poke the student meanwhile
[23:18:51] <mupuf> I have seen the effect when some students did it duroing the GSoC
[23:18:54] <mupuf> and it is not OK
[23:18:56] <egbert> i guess, the question is, do we want to accept it wihtout exploring the situation further...
[23:18:59] <keithp> we have had several bad experiences with overlapping responsibilities impacting gsoc...
[23:19:09] <mupuf> they have this "little exam" and then you freak out a week before
[23:19:16] <mupuf> and you don't see them for that long
[23:19:21] <egbert> that's true as well - it will make mentoring even harder.
[23:19:50] <robclark> yeah, part-time during finals is a bad idea.. that is why I suggested *if* we did that, it shoudl be beginning of term, not end..
[23:20:00] * mupuf would be OK if hakzsam or curro was in this situation because we know them, we know they deliver and we know they are not going to disapear
[23:20:00] <robclark> anyways, I think I'm in the minority on the part-time issue..
[23:20:20] <danvet> ok, let's revote on the part-time or full-time on next mtg
[23:20:24] <robclark> yeah, maybe the answer is requiring a higher standard for "known contributor"..
[23:20:33] <mupuf> robclark: agreed
[23:20:34] <danvet> and robclark meanwhile gets to ask student whether there's a better time
[23:20:36] <danvet> ok?
[23:20:40] <robclark> sounds good
[23:21:16] <keithp> danvet: the students last comment says they have only one month of summer break; not sure there is a longer break at some other time during the year
[23:21:59] <danvet> next up is spi
[23:22:22] <danvet> lazy me didn't type the libreoffice I promised, but my welcome excuse is that bryce isn't around either ;-)
[23:22:30] <danvet> I'll get that done for next time around
[23:23:01] <keithp> next time for sure!
[23:23:17] <danvet> ;-)
[23:23:33] <danvet> so next up is the X.org logo request use for the open source puzzle
[23:23:47] <danvet> keithp&I looked it at, it's cute
[23:23:51] <keithp> I already expressed an opinion in email, but I still vote +1 for that
[23:23:58] <danvet> +1
[23:24:18] <robclark> sounds reasonable to me, as I mentioned on #xf-bod at the time.. it is not portraying something that is not xorg using the xorg logo
[23:24:20] <egbert> i'd be fine as well.
[23:24:21] <robclark> so +1
[23:24:26] <mupuf> +1
[23:24:30] <robclark> (and I solved the puzzle too :-P)
[23:24:30] <egbert> +1
[23:24:41] <keithp> robclark: I suspect we all did ...
[23:24:45] <robclark> :-P
[23:25:03] <danvet> final item: xdc
[23:25:11] <danvet> mupuf, anything noteworthy, or all well?
[23:25:30] <mupuf> well, it is getting attention now!
[23:25:41] <danvet> for xdc17 I'm poking the folks I know who are interested to send in a prelim proposal, but it's summer ;-)
[23:25:43] <danvet> ?
[23:25:44] <mupuf> 35 attendees already
[23:25:50] <danvet> ah nice
[23:25:54] * danvet not yet on it either ...
[23:26:02] <mupuf> yeah, a lot of people are missing
[23:26:39] <mupuf> we also got talks already
[23:26:41] <mupuf> way in advance
[23:26:42] <keithp> we have a travel freeze; funding uncertain here
[23:26:44] <danvet> so everything looking good?
[23:26:54] <mupuf> 7 so far
[23:26:59] <danvet> keithp, might be the same here ...
[23:27:05] <mupuf> I need to add two from myself (I never learn)
[23:27:08] <keithp> danvet: you could walk
[23:27:12] <danvet> almost
[23:27:45] <danvet> either freezing cold or a few states of questionable governance in between ...
[23:28:00] <egbert> danvet: or a lot of water ;p
[23:28:27] <danvet> yeah, I can't pull the walk-on-water stunt
[23:28:29] <robclark> danvet likes swimming :-P
[23:28:51] <danvet> s/swimming/leisurely drifting down the Rhine/
[23:29:16] <egbert> danvet: i'll wave when you drift by me ;p
[23:29:24] <danvet> 30 yards to get into the current and out again isn't really swimming
[23:29:28] <danvet> haha
[23:29:41] <danvet> ok, I guess we're all done here given the joking ...
[23:30:07] <danvet> thx for attending and cya
[23:30:25] <egbert> :)
[23:31:12] <mupuf> cya!
[23:31:16] <keithp> tnx!
[23:31:38] <stukreit> buh bye!

[23:33:27] [disconnected at Thu Jul 21 23:33:27 2016]