Date is Date is 2016-01-21, times are UTC+1.

22:58 <+egbert> hi guys!
22:58 <+egbert> keithp won't be here. talked to him earlier. he has all day meet
ings.
23:00 < danvet_> hi all
23:00 < mupuf_> hey guys
23:00 < danvet_> egbert, yeah just seen his mail to board@
23:00 < robclark> stukreit, for "role" is "board member" (for I guess pretty muc
h everyone than danvet) ok?
23:00 < danvet_> and agd5f is having fun with snow ...
23:00 < agd5f> robclark, yeah, a little bit :)
23:01 < danvet_> Agenda: election/spi, x.org domain, server changes, evoc troubl
es, delaware filings
23:02 < robclark> agd5f, stay warm and off the roads if possible..  I think you 
might get more than we got last winter in any single storm in boston
23:02 < danvet_> marcoz, around?
23:02 < agd5f> robclark, yeah, that's the plan
23:03 < mupuf_> robclark, agd5f: the cold is hitting you too? For us, it was two
 weeks ago, we went to -28 and got about 30cm of snow ... which is fine :)
23:04 < danvet_> hm, marcoz not around, otherwise I think we have everyone
23:04 < robclark> tbh, I think we haven't even gotten 2" in total of snow yet this winter..  although we've had a few chilly days recently (lows maybe -5C if my conversion is correct)
23:04 < danvet_> any additions to agenda?
23:04 < danvet_> let's get rolling with elections then ...
23:04 < danvet_> whot, where are we?
23:05 < agd5f> mupuf_, been cold, highs of 20F, but supposed to get 2 feet of snow this weekend and 50mph winds.  We are under a blizzard warning
23:05 < whot> danvet_: 30 day renewal period expires today, so we can start sending members@ emails again without worring about missing some
23:06 < danvet_> good
23:06 < whot> fwiw, 58 members have renewed, out of 71 iirc
23:06 <+egbert> i'm in nuernberg today, according to google it is -8c here. 
23:06 <+egbert> doesn't feel that cold. could be that i had a few beers already.
23:06 <+egbert> s/that/because/
23:06 < danvet_> hm, I guess a few will notice and I get to handle new members applying ;-)
23:07 < stukreit> we're getting 1 to 2 ft snow in tahoe tomorrow night, so I'm going skiing sat/sun
23:07 < whot> danvet_: I'm getting all the reminders for new applications, usually processed them within a day
23:07 < danvet_> whot, what's up next?
23:07 < danvet_> whot, I thought they go to secretary@ ?
23:07 <+egbert> who will be at FOSDEM next week?
23:07 < danvet_> not me&keithp at least
23:08 < whot> no, that one has my direct email in the system (had alanc before). we could switch to secretary, but so far I don't mind
23:08  * danvet_ neither ;-)
23:08 < whot> it's not high-volume :)
23:08 < danvet_> thx for handling this
23:08 < mupuf_> agd5f: so many crazy units in one sentence :D So, to recap, -6 °C, 80 km/h of wind and 60cm of snow. Well, it will be cold! Good luck!
23:08 < whot> we need the bylaws acked by spi, request spi to vote on us joining and get the election started
23:09 < whot> spi said they can extend our timeframe for answering, so we should ask asap, danvet just reply to bdale with a formal request
23:09 < danvet_> whot, so not yet time for election committee and gathering volunteers for the board seats?
23:09 < whot> election committee is traditionally those 4 that aren't up for election this year
23:09 < danvet_> whot, yeah, I figured we'd vote on the spi thing (I get to write a mail tomorrow) after the voting agenda is discussed ...
23:10 < danvet_> whot, so you, mupuf, robclark &me?
23:10 < whot> I think so, yes
23:10 < danvet_> If anyone is against that, please pipe up
23:10 < whot> for board nominations - we should probably have an election date first. and there are some waiting periods in between everything
23:10 < danvet_> otherwise I'll smash this into the minutes and make it official
23:11 < danvet_> whot, yeah, what are those waiting periods?
23:11 < mupuf_> whot: yep, let's set a date and go back from there
23:11 < danvet_> well some dates won't work ;-)
23:11 < whot> don't know off-hand, the actual election is 14 days iirc, and then there's 30 days or so before for nominations?
23:11 < whot> mupuf_: you've done an election before, right? can you figure out what the time periods are?
23:12 < whot> or egbert mabye?
23:12 < mupuf_> whot: sure
23:12 <+alanc> cworth put a nice election calendar template in the board wiki years ago
23:12 <+alanc> as I recall, it's 6-8 weeks total
23:12 <+egbert> last year i set up a very precise time table for the election. it's all in the wiki still.
23:12 < mupuf_> whot: http://www.x.org/wiki/BoardOfDirectors/Elections/2015/
23:14 <+egbert> we had to delay the start of the election due to bylaw issues. anything else was still according to the schedule.
23:14 < danvet_> 3 weeks nomination, 3 weeks in between 2 weeks of voting
23:14 < whot> rightyo, seems like a decent template to follow. IMO we still need SPI ack on the bylaws, no point voting on them when they're not appropriate for SPI and we have to change them anyway
23:14 < danvet_> spi board mtg is on the 12th feb
23:15 < danvet_> so would/should be clear in 4 weeks
23:15 < danvet_> so we could start the week after that bod mtg 22th feb?
23:15 <+egbert> sounds ok
23:16 < whot> agreed
23:16 < danvet_> so end of nomination period 14th March
23:16 < danvet_> start of election 28th March
23:17 < marcoz> hi guys, sorry I'm late.
23:17 < mupuf_> sounds late ... but not unheard of :D
23:17 < danvet_> argh, we need 3 weeks apparntly
23:17 < danvet_> so 4th April
23:17 < mupuf_> Maybe one day we will be back to a normal time :D
23:17 < danvet_> end of voting 18th april
23:18 < danvet_> or so
23:18 < danvet_> mupuf_, can you pls copypaste the 2015 elections for 2016 and put in the dates?
23:18 < mupuf_> ok, will do that now
23:19 < danvet_> I'll just put 22th feb as starting day into the minutes, you can then do the 3/3/2 split
23:19 < whot> we need an onslaught of reminder emails this year...
23:20 < danvet_> yeah exactly
23:20 < danvet_> we need a true soviet voting result
23:20 < danvet_> 99% or whatever ;-)
23:20 < danvet_> whot, progressing on that mail alias for everyone who hasn't voted yet?
23:21 < danvet_> ofc need to spam devel mailing lists, planets, twitter, g+ too
23:22 < danvet_> ofc joking on the soviet style ;-)
23:22 < robclark> (spam list for those who haven't voted yet is clever idea)
23:22 < whot> danvet_: yeah, I'll figure that out when I look at the election system. which has now moved to fdo I think
23:22 < danvet_> and really 99% participants, if we don't get the 75% with that then oh well
23:22 < danvet_> whot, cool, thx
23:24 < danvet_> next up, formal request to spi
23:24 < mupuf_> I can add a slide to my FOSDEM presentation
23:24 < mupuf_> to remind people
23:24 < danvet_> mupuf_, pls do
23:24 < danvet_> it's a bit ahead
23:24 < danvet_> but we need to remind folks that not voting essentially means voting "no"
23:24 < mupuf_> danvet_: for people to at least renew their membership
23:25 < whot> or actually join. 58 is a bit low, imo
23:25 < danvet_> yeah, where has everyone gone too
23:25 < danvet_> mupuf_, pr for joining sounds great too
23:25 < danvet_> "fix the xorg foundation, join and take all the real power away from the board!"
23:25 < danvet_> ;-)
23:26 < danvet_> ok, do we need to vote on me writing the request for invitation?
23:26 <+egbert> i did not touch the voting system before election ended last year.
23:26 < danvet_> or anyone against it really?
23:26 < mupuf_> no probs for me
23:26 < mupuf_> go ahead
23:26 <+egbert> i didn't think it was appropriate to pull out information before the election had ended.
23:26 < danvet_> or anyone against it really?
23:26 < mupuf_> no probs for me
23:26 < mupuf_> go ahead
23:26 <+egbert> i didn't think it was appropriate to pull out information before the election had ended.
23:26 < danvet_> agd5f, marcoz
23:26 < stukreit> libv will dissent
23:27 < danvet_> stukreit, against?
23:27 < marcoz> go ahead
23:27  * danvet_ is oblivious to any old stories ...
23:27 <+egbert> the problem is: you can get all sorts of information that should not be available before the end if you want to have a really secret election.
23:27 < whot> danvet_: go ahead
23:28 <+egbert> so during the election it is not a good idea to obtain information about people who haven't voted, yet.
23:28 < agd5f> no objections
23:28 < whot> egbert: a page that pulls out the "who voted" result and sends the email would be acceptable, I guess
23:28 <+egbert> whot: no
23:28 < whot> it doesn't have to display it to the person who calls the script
23:28 < danvet_> or just a mail alias/script imo
23:28 < stukreit> d: yeah, he likes to argue. Its good to have someone out there poking the status quo
23:28 < danvet_> egbert, if we don't do this we won't get the spi vote down, I'm 100% convinced
23:29 < danvet_> if 30% of our members say "no" then we know it
23:29 <+egbert> danvet_: you cannot bend the system just to get the results you hope for.
23:29 < danvet_> but until we get most to vote it's just meh again I fear
23:29 <+egbert> point is: the 'who voted' should also be confidential
23:29 < whot> egbert: the point is to get people to vote, not to force a result
23:29 < danvet_> yeah
23:29 < danvet_> they can still vote no
23:30 < danvet_> and if they want to, I'd very much want them to vote no
23:30 <+egbert> the point is what information do you disclose to the public.
23:30 < danvet_> so that we have clarity
23:30 < danvet_> and don't try spi again next year
23:30 < danvet_> it won't be public
23:30 <+egbert> ok, so no web page.
23:30 < danvet_> it won't even be disclosed to anyone else than the voting machine
23:31 < danvet_> nah, just a mail alias imo really
23:31 <+egbert> ok, if you can get the voting machine to send out a reminder without any intervention i guess it's fine.
23:31 < danvet_> should be doable with procmail
23:31 < robclark> egbert, a script the pulls out the unvoted and sends email w/ 'em all bcc'd?
23:31 < danvet_> I agree that leaking the names and then starting to harass folks is way too much soviet ;-)
23:31 < danvet_> robclark, yeah, bcc ofc
23:32 <+egbert> robclark: that be ok i guess.
23:32 < robclark> I guess it should be easy enough for the script to send an email w/out showing whoever runs the script (or cron)..
23:32 < agd5f> what about just regular nagging reminders to the membership everyday until they vote?
23:32 < whot> egbert: that's what the member reminder emails already do. they only display because of a printf in there, it's easy enough to remove
23:32 < robclark> agd5f, there is no carrot in that, only stick ;-)
23:32 < danvet_> agd5f, might be too much spam, but can do that too
23:32 < whot> yeah, the point is to not spam everyone that has already voted
23:33 < agd5f> robclark, the carrot it that the reminders stop ;)
23:33 < marcoz> how often does that nagware run?
23:33 < whot> marcoz: we don't have it yet
23:33 < marcoz> s/does/would/
23:33 < robclark> (well, I mean if you are sending reminders to *everyone* rather than just those who didn't vote yet)
23:33 < whot> 2 week election period, I'd say at least 5 times
23:33 < danvet_> I guess daily in the 2nd week or so
23:33 < marcoz> whot, 5 times in two weeks doesn't sound so bad
23:33 < danvet_> or at least daily over the last w/e
23:33 < robclark> +1 for daily in last week
23:34 < danvet_> before that we can just do public reminders and spam on members@
23:34 < agd5f> +1
23:34 < mupuf_> danvet_: I would say it is too much
23:34 < mupuf_> we should send one when the vote opens
23:34 < mupuf_> one at the end of the week
23:35 < danvet_> whot, +1 on daily reminders in last week too?
23:35 < mupuf_> one in the middle of the second week, then an email the last 2 days
23:35 < mupuf_> an email per day the last two days*
23:35 <+egbert> i tend to agree with mupuf
23:35  * danvet_ +1 on that
23:35 < mupuf_> that would be reasonable
23:35 < danvet_> I can do that too
23:35 < whot> can we decide on the exact email schedule when we have the system in place?
23:35 < danvet_> sounds fine too
23:36 < robclark> mupuf_, the nag emails I get to remind me to take my corp. trainings stuff cranks up to once a day (vs once a week) close to the deadline..  I find it effective ;-)
23:36 < danvet_> yeah, daily is certainly needed in the end
23:36 <+egbert> robclark: this is different. this is corp
23:36 < mupuf_> robclark: ah ah, but if everyone did it, it would be a fucking nightmare :D
23:36 < danvet_> we might just spam 5 times the last five times
23:36 < danvet_> anyway I think we've covered this all now
23:36 < marcoz> weekly, then daily, then hourly, then minutely
23:36 < robclark> heheh
23:36 < danvet_> so next item: domains
23:37 < danvet_> keithp is busy, I'll punch in his update into the minutes
23:37 < danvet_> egbert, anything from your side
23:37 < danvet_> whot, news from you wrt backup domain transfer review from sflc?
23:37 < whot> waiting for something from sflc
23:37 <+egbert> danvet_: i was so busy the past two weeks that i hardly followed.
23:37 < danvet_> egbert, just figured you know more because of your mail
23:37 <+egbert> i read that apparently Leon bailed us out?
23:38 < danvet_> yeah
23:38 <+egbert> danvet_: not really after i read it's ok.
23:38 <+egbert> whois did the trick.
23:38 <+egbert> so, i think we shoud send Leon an official thank you and reimburse him if this hasn't been done.
23:39 < robclark> +1
23:39 < marcoz> +1
23:39 < agd5f> egbert, +1
23:39 < danvet_> egbert, I send an official mail as secretary days ago
23:39 < danvet_> done long ago
23:39 < marcoz> reimbursement?
23:39 < danvet_> including thanking him for his continuous support yadada
23:39 <+egbert> ok, did you do it on behalf of the board as well?
23:39 < danvet_> he said "our contribution to x.org"
23:39 <+egbert> ok
23:40 < danvet_> let's not official book this as a donation because tax filings ...
23:40 < danvet_> robclark, server transfer updates
23:41 < danvet_> re: certs btw: I asked daniels to simply roll out letsencrypt as something idiot proof we don't have to concern ourselves with
23:41 < danvet_> not yet done though ...
23:41 < danvet_> robclark, should have had a ? ;-)
23:42 < robclark> so, members is moved over to fdo..
23:42 < mupuf_> +1
23:42 < robclark> not sure about the wiki
23:42 < robclark> but yeah, +1 for letsencrypt if that was the question..
23:42 < mupuf_> danvet_: yep for let'sencrypt!
23:42 < agd5f> +1
23:42 < mupuf_> dumb is good!
23:42 < danvet_> oh, wasn't a question about that ;-)
23:42 < danvet_> more a question for rob to give server status updates ;-)
23:43 < robclark> ahh
23:43 < mupuf_> my +1 was for Leon
23:43 < danvet_> robclark, so members.x.org moved?
23:43 < robclark> yeah, basic status is members is moved over because it needed to live with the list server..  I guess we *could* come up with a way to split them and move members.x.org to the cloud, but not sure if it is really worth it..
23:43 < danvet_> did that solve our mail fun?
23:44 < robclark> well, that solved the mail issue for members..
23:44 < danvet_> do we have anything else?
23:44 < danvet_> on expo now I mean
23:44 < robclark> wiki still remains I think..  I guess I should double check w/ daniels to see if he moved it without me realizing..
23:44 < mupuf_> danvet_: btw, we do not need 3 weeks for everything, it is usually 2+2+2
23:45 < mupuf_> do we really want to push back everything by 2 weeks?
23:45 < danvet_> mupuf_, sounds good too
23:45 < danvet_> nah
23:45 < danvet_> but we can discuss those details again
23:45 < robclark> hmm, or actually foundation.x.org is on gabe too..
23:45 < danvet_> robclark, so we could in theory shut down expo?
23:45 < danvet_> can you pls confirm with daniels?
23:45 < mupuf_> and QA is actually one week normally
23:45 < mupuf_> so 2+1+2
23:45 < robclark> yeah, I'll double check..
23:45  * danvet_ has no clue about this stuff
23:46 < danvet_> mupuf_, you checked bylaws about that?
23:46 < danvet_> robclark, thx
23:46 < danvet_> what's our plan with expo btw?
23:46 < danvet_> # shutdown
23:46 < danvet_> then forget about it?
23:46 <+egbert> how do we switch dns?
23:47 < danvet_> oh right, x.org still points its ns at expo
23:47 < danvet_> egbert, or did you mean something else?
23:47 <+egbert> no. that was what i meant.
23:47 <+egbert> we need to get this domain thing sorted out.
23:47 < danvet_> yup
23:48 < mupuf_> danvet_: nothing in there, apparently
23:48 < danvet_> oh well, 2+2+2 seems reasonable imo
23:48 < mupuf_> we can make it 3+1+2
23:48 < danvet_> mupuf_, maybe double check that the last weekend isn't easter or something silly like that pls
23:48 < danvet_> that's imo the only reason
23:48 < mupuf_> 3 for nomination, 1 for QA, 2 for election
23:48 < mupuf_> oh, right, that would be bad!
23:48 < danvet_> mupuf_, 2 weeks is imo needed for candidates to unlazy and write an election blurb for themselves
23:49 < danvet_> speaking of experience ;-)
23:49 < mupuf_> danvet_: yep, hence why I updated it to 3 :D
23:49 < mupuf_> and 1 for QA
23:49 < danvet_> mupuf_, then maybe 1 more week to fully get election out of easter?
23:49 < mupuf_> ok, then 3 + 2 + 2
23:49 < danvet_> as a proposal at least
23:50 < danvet_> we'll suck anyway at this and extend ...
23:50 < danvet_> next up is evoc troubles I'd say
23:50 < danvet_> stukreit, anything new?
23:50 < danvet_> the she take the offer of splitting the transfer?
23:51 < robclark> danvet_, hmm, so I think BoD wiki is broken at the moment (since foundation.x.org now points at fd.o..)
23:51 < stukreit> I haven't done anything on it. thanks for the push
23:51 < robclark> (or at least https://foundation.x.org/bod/ -> internal server error)
23:53 < danvet_> stukreit, re the delaware filings, good enough if everyone just replies to you in private with the needed information?
23:54 < stukreit> yes. I have quite a few replies already, so thanks, folks
23:54 < danvet_> cool
23:54 < danvet_> I think despite election fun we've managed to get through ...
23:54 < danvet_> anything we've missed?
23:54 < stukreit> fyi GSOC has approved my invoice and is processing payment
23:54 < stukreit> (mentor stipends)
23:55 < mupuf_> danvet_: easter on on March 26th, we should be good!
23:55 < mupuf_> here we go: http://www.x.org/wiki/BoardOfDirectors/Elections/2016/?updated
23:56 < danvet_> mupuf_, you checked for any other holidays too?
23:56  * danvet_ has no clue about these things
23:56 < mupuf_> same here
23:56 < danvet_> us tends to be different a bit ...
23:56 < agd5f> lunar new year for asia first week of feb
23:56 < danvet_> agd5f, yeah, but that's still early enough
23:56 < danvet_> we only start for real on 22th Feb because spi
23:57 < mupuf_> there is the Hindi new year
23:57 < mupuf_> that's it
23:57 < danvet_> hm, new to me
23:57 < danvet_> when's that?
23:58 < mupuf_> Friday, Apr 08, 2016
23:58 < mupuf_> http://www.calendarlabs.com/hindu-calendar <-- all the religious holidays
23:58 < danvet_> well I guess they just need to vote before celebrating then ;-)
23:59 < danvet_> ok, I think that's it
23:59 < danvet_> thanks everyone!
23:59 <+egbert> right. thanks!
--- Day changed Fri Jan 22 2016
00:00 <+egbert> good night!
00:00 < robclark> thx, gn
00:01 < agd5f> thanks