Date is 2016-01-06, times are UTC+1.

21:52 < danvet_> stuff on the agenda: server/expo: robclark, election: whot, x.org: keithp, evoc troubles: stukreit 
21:57 < whot> rightyo
22:15 < stukreit> agenda item:  Time to file Delaware Annual Report.  Stuart needs name/role/address/email address for all board members
22:29 < robclark> stukreit, I think that should probably be in members.x.org db (assuming it is up to date)?
22:30 < robclark> (or maybe just send mail to board@ ...  probably easier to reply by mail than everyone typing their addr on irc)
22:30 < whot> yeah, stukreit please send this to board@
22:49 -!- secretary [~secretary@212-51-149-109.fiber7.init7.net] has joined #xf-bod
22:58 <+egbert> hi guys!
22:58 <+egbert> keithp won't be here. talked to him earlier. he has all day meetings.
23:00 < danvet_> hi all
23:00 < mupuf_> hey guys
23:00 < danvet_> egbert, yeah just seen his mail to board@
23:00 < robclark> stukreit, for "role" is "board member" (for I guess pretty much everyone than danvet) ok?
23:00 < danvet_> and agd5f is having fun with snow ...
23:00 < agd5f> robclark, yeah, a little bit :)
23:01 < danvet_> Agenda: election/spi, x.org domain, server changes, evoc troubles, delaware filings
23:02 < robclark> agd5f, stay warm and off the roads if possible..  I think you might get more than we got last winter in any single storm in boston
23:02 < danvet_> marcoz, around?
23:02 < agd5f> robclark, yeah, that's the plan
23:03 < mupuf_> robclark, agd5f: the cold is hitting you too? For us, it was two weeks ago, we went to -28 and got about 30cm of snow ... which is fine :)
23:04 < danvet_> hm, marcoz not around, otherwise I think we have everyone
23:04 < robclark> tbh, I think we haven't even gotten 2" in total of snow yet this winter..  although we've had a few chilly days recently (lows maybe -5C if m
y conversion is correct)
23:04 < danvet_> any additions to agenda?
23:04 < danvet_> let's get rolling with elections then ...
23:04 < danvet_> whot, where are we?
23:05 < agd5f> mupuf_, been cold, highs of 20F, but supposed to get 2 feet of snow this weekend and 50mph winds.  We are under a blizzard warning
23:05 < whot> danvet_: 30 day renewal period expires today, so we can start sending members@ emails again without worring about missing some
23:06 < danvet_> good
23:06 < whot> fwiw, 58 members have renewed, out of 71 iirc
23:06 <+egbert> i'm in nuernberg today, according to google it is -8c here. 
23:06 <+egbert> doesn't feel that cold. could be that i had a few beers already.
23:06 <+egbert> s/that/because/
23:06 < danvet_> hm, I guess a few will notice and I get to handle new members applying ;-)
23:07 < stukreit> we're getting 1 to 2 ft snow in tahoe tomorrow night, so I'm going skiing sat/sun
23:07 < whot> danvet_: I'm getting all the reminders for new applications, usually processed them within a day
23:07 < danvet_> whot, what's up next?
23:07 < danvet_> whot, I thought they go to secretary@ ?
23:07 <+egbert> who will be at FOSDEM next week?
23:07 < danvet_> not me&keithp at least
23:08 < whot> no, that one has my direct email in the system (had alanc before). we could switch to secretary, but so far I don't mind
23:08  * danvet_ neither ;-)
23:08 < whot> it's not high-volume :)
23:08 < danvet_> thx for handling this
23:08 < mupuf_> agd5f: so many crazy units in one sentence :D So, to recap, -6 °C, 80 km/h of wind and 60cm of snow. Well, it will be cold! Good luck!
23:08 < whot> we need the bylaws acked by spi, request spi to vote on us joining and get the election started
23:09 < whot> spi said they can extend our timeframe for answering, so we should ask asap, danvet just reply to bdale with a formal request
23:09 < danvet_> whot, so not yet time for election committee and gathering volunteers for the board seats?
23:09 < whot> election committee is traditionally those 4 that aren't up for election this year
23:09 < danvet_> whot, yeah, I figured we'd vote on the spi thing (I get to write a mail tomorrow) after the voting agenda is discussed ...
23:10 < danvet_> whot, so you, mupuf, robclark &me?
23:10 < whot> I think so, yes
23:10 < danvet_> If anyone is against that, please pipe up
23:10 < whot> for board nominations - we should probably have an election date first. and there are some waiting periods in between everything
23:10 < danvet_> otherwise I'll smash this into the minutes and make it official
23:11 < danvet_> whot, yeah, what are those waiting periods?
23:11 < mupuf_> whot: yep, let's set a date and go back from there
23:11 < danvet_> well some dates won't work ;-)
23:11 < whot> don't know off-hand, the actual election is 14 days iirc, and then there's 30 days or so before for nominations?
23:11 < whot> mupuf_: you've done an election before, right? can you figure out what the time periods are?
23:12 < whot> or egbert mabye?
23:12 < mupuf_> whot: sure
23:12 <+alanc> cworth put a nice election calendar template in the board wiki years ago
23:12 <+alanc> as I recall, it's 6-8 weeks total
23:12 <+egbert> last year i set up a very precise time table for the election. it's all in the wiki still.
23:12 < mupuf_> whot: http://www.x.org/wiki/BoardOfDirectors/Elections/2015/
23:14 <+egbert> we had to delay the start of the election due to bylaw issues. anything else was still according to the schedule.
23:14 < danvet_> 3 weeks nomination, 3 weeks in between 2 weeks of voting
23:14 < whot> rightyo, seems like a decent template to follow. IMO we still need SPI ack on the bylaws, no point voting on them when they're not appropriate fo
r SPI and we have to change them anyway
23:14 < danvet_> spi board mtg is on the 12th feb
23:15 < danvet_> so would/should be clear in 4 weeks
23:15 < danvet_> so we could start the week after that bod mtg 22th feb?
23:15 <+egbert> sounds ok
23:16 < whot> agreed
23:16 < danvet_> so end of nomination period 14th March
23:16 < danvet_> start of election 28th March
23:17 < marcoz> hi guys, sorry I'm late.
23:17 < mupuf_> sounds late ... but not unheard of :D
23:17 < danvet_> argh, we need 3 weeks apparntly
23:17 < danvet_> so 4th April
23:17 < mupuf_> Maybe one day we will be back to a normal time :D
23:17 < danvet_> end of voting 18th april
23:18 < danvet_> or so
23:18 < danvet_> mupuf_, can you pls copypaste the 2015 elections for 2016 and put in the dates?
23:18 < mupuf_> ok, will do that now
23:19 < danvet_> I'll just put 22th feb as starting day into the minutes, you can then do the 3/3/2 split
23:19 < whot> we need an onslaught of reminder emails this year...
23:20 < danvet_> yeah exactly
23:20 < danvet_> we need a true soviet voting result
23:20 < danvet_> 99% or whatever ;-)
23:20 < danvet_> whot, progressing on that mail alias for everyone who hasn't voted yet?
23:21 < danvet_> ofc need to spam devel mailing lists, planets, twitter, g+ too
23:22 < danvet_> ofc joking on the soviet style ;-)
23:22 < robclark> (spam list for those who haven't voted yet is clever idea)
23:22 < whot> danvet_: yeah, I'll figure that out when I look at the election system. which has now moved to fdo I think
23:22 < danvet_> and really 99% participants, if we don't get the 75% with that then oh well
23:22 < danvet_> whot, cool, thx
23:24 < danvet_> next up, formal request to spi
23:24 < mupuf_> I can add a slide to my FOSDEM presentation
23:24 < mupuf_> to remind people
23:24 < danvet_> mupuf_, pls do
23:24 < danvet_> it's a bit ahead
23:24 < danvet_> but we need to remind folks that not voting essentially means voting "no"
23:24 < mupuf_> danvet_: for people to at least renew their membership
23:25 < whot> or actually join. 58 is a bit low, imo
23:25 < danvet_> yeah, where has everyone gone too
23:25 < danvet_> mupuf_, pr for joining sounds great too
23:25 < danvet_> "fix the xorg foundation, join and take all the real power away from the board!"
23:25 < danvet_> ;-)
23:26 < danvet_> ok, do we need to vote on me writing the request for invitation?
23:26 <+egbert> i did not touch the voting system before election ended last year.
23:26 < danvet_> or anyone against it really?
23:26 < mupuf_> no probs for me
23:26 < mupuf_> go ahead
23:26 <+egbert> i didn't think it was appropriate to pull out information before the election had ended.
23:26 < danvet_> agd5f, marcoz
23:26 < stukreit> libv will dissent
23:27 < danvet_> stukreit, against?
23:27 < marcoz> go ahead
23:27  * danvet_ is oblivious to any old stories ...
23:27 <+egbert> the problem is: you can get all sorts of information that should not be available before the end if you want to have a really secret election.
23:27 < whot> danvet_: go ahead
23:28 <+egbert> so during the election it is not a good idea to obtain information about people who haven't voted, yet.
23:28 < agd5f> no objections
23:28 < whot> egbert: a page that pulls out the "who voted" result and sends the email would be acceptable, I guess
23:28 <+egbert> whot: no
23:28 < whot> it doesn't have to display it to the person who calls the script
23:28 < danvet_> or just a mail alias/script imo
23:28 < stukreit> d: yeah, he likes to argue. Its good to have someone out there poking the status quo
23:28 < danvet_> egbert, if we don't do this we won't get the spi vote down, I'm 100% convinced
23:29 < danvet_> if 30% of our members say "no" then we know it
23:29 <+egbert> danvet_: you cannot bend the system just to get the results you hope for.
23:29 < danvet_> but until we get most to vote it's just meh again I fear
23:29 <+egbert> point is: the 'who voted' should also be confidential
23:29 < whot> egbert: the point is to get people to vote, not to force a result
23:29 < danvet_> yeah
23:29 < danvet_> they can still vote no
23:30 < danvet_> and if they want to, I'd very much want them to vote no
23:30 <+egbert> the point is what information do you disclose to the public.
23:30 < danvet_> so that we have clarity
23:30 < danvet_> and don't try spi again next year
23:30 < danvet_> it won't be public
23:30 <+egbert> ok, so no web page.
23:30 < danvet_> it won't even be disclosed to anyone else than the voting machine
23:31 < danvet_> nah, just a mail alias imo really
23:31 <+egbert> ok, if you can get the voting machine to send out a reminder without any intervention i guess it's fine.
23:31 < danvet_> should be doable with procmail
23:31 < robclark> egbert, a script the pulls out the unvoted and sends email w/ 'em all bcc'd?
23:31 < danvet_> I agree that leaking the names and then starting to harass folks is way too much soviet ;-)
23:31 < danvet_> robclark, yeah, bcc ofc
23:32 <+egbert> robclark: that be ok i guess.
23:32 < robclark> I guess it should be easy enough for the script to send an email w/out showing whoever runs the script (or cron)..
23:32 < agd5f> what about just regular nagging reminders to the membership everyday until they vote?
23:32 < whot> egbert: that's what the member reminder emails already do. they only display because of a printf in there, it's easy enough to remove
23:32 < robclark> agd5f, there is no carrot in that, only stick ;-)
23:32 < danvet_> agd5f, might be too much spam, but can do that too
23:32 < whot> yeah, the point is to not spam everyone that has already voted
23:33 < agd5f> robclark, the carrot it that the reminders stop ;)
23:33 < marcoz> how often does that nagware run?
23:33 < whot> marcoz: we don't have it yet
23:33 < marcoz> s/does/would/
23:33 < robclark> (well, I mean if you are sending reminders to *everyone* rather than just those who didn't vote yet)
23:33 < whot> 2 week election period, I'd say at least 5 times
23:33 < danvet_> I guess daily in the 2nd week or so
23:33 < marcoz> whot, 5 times in two weeks doesn't sound so bad
23:33 < danvet_> or at least daily over the last w/e
23:33 < robclark> +1 for daily in last week
23:34 < danvet_> before that we can just do public reminders and spam on members@
23:34 < agd5f> +1
23:34 < mupuf_> danvet_: I would say it is too much
23:34 < mupuf_> we should send one when the vote opens
23:34 < mupuf_> one at the end of the week
23:35 < danvet_> whot, +1 on daily reminders in last week too?
23:35 < mupuf_> one in the middle of the second week, then an email the last 2 days
23:35 < mupuf_> an email per day the last two days*
23:35 <+egbert> i tend to agree with mupuf
23:35  * danvet_ +1 on that
23:35 < mupuf_> that would be reasonable
23:35 < danvet_> I can do that too
23:35 < whot> can we decide on the exact email schedule when we have the system in place?
23:35 < danvet_> sounds fine too
23:36 < robclark> mupuf_, the nag emails I get to remind me to take my corp. trainings stuff cranks up to once a day (vs once a week) close to the deadline..  I find it effective ;-)
23:36 < danvet_> yeah, daily is certainly needed in the end
23:36 <+egbert> robclark: this is different. this is corp
23:36 < mupuf_> robclark: ah ah, but if everyone did it, it would be a fucking nightmare :D
23:36 < danvet_> we might just spam 5 times the last five times
23:36 < danvet_> anyway I think we've covered this all now
23:36 < marcoz> weekly, then daily, then hourly, then minutely
23:36 < robclark> heheh
23:36 < danvet_> so next item: domains
23:37 < danvet_> keithp is busy, I'll punch in his update into the minutes
23:37 < danvet_> egbert, anything from your side
23:37 < danvet_> whot, news from you wrt backup domain transfer review from sflc?
23:37 < whot> waiting for something from sflc
23:37 <+egbert> danvet_: i was so busy the past two weeks that i hardly followed.
23:37 < danvet_> egbert, just figured you know more because of your mail
23:37 <+egbert> i read that apparently Leon bailed us out?
23:38 < danvet_> yeah
23:38 <+egbert> danvet_: not really after i read it's ok.
23:38 <+egbert> whois did the trick.
23:38 <+egbert> so, i think we shoud send Leon an official thank you and reimburse him if this hasn't been done.
23:39 < robclark> +1
23:39 < marcoz> +1
23:39 < agd5f> egbert, +1
23:39 < danvet_> egbert, I send an official mail as secretary days ago
23:39 < danvet_> done long ago
23:39 < marcoz> reimbursement?
23:39 < danvet_> including thanking him for his continuous support yadada
23:39 <+egbert> ok, did you do it on behalf of the board as well?
23:39 < danvet_> he said "our contribution to x.org"
23:39 <+egbert> ok
23:40 < danvet_> let's not official book this as a donation because tax filings ...
23:40 < danvet_> robclark, server transfer updates
23:41 < danvet_> re: certs btw: I asked daniels to simply roll out letsencrypt as something idiot proof we don't have to concern ourselves with
23:41 < danvet_> not yet done though ...
23:41 < danvet_> robclark, should have had a ? ;-)
23:42 < robclark> so, members is moved over to fdo..
23:42 < mupuf_> +1
23:42 < robclark> not sure about the wiki
23:42 < robclark> but yeah, +1 for letsencrypt if that was the question..
23:42 < mupuf_> danvet_: yep for let'sencrypt!
23:42 < agd5f> +1
23:42 < mupuf_> dumb is good!
23:42 < danvet_> oh, wasn't a question about that ;-)
23:42 < danvet_> more a question for rob to give server status updates ;-)
23:43 < robclark> ahh
23:43 < mupuf_> my +1 was for Leon
23:43 < danvet_> robclark, so members.x.org moved?
23:43 < robclark> yeah, basic status is members is moved over because it needed to live with the list server..  I guess we *could* come up with a way to split them and move members.x.org to the cloud, but not sure if it is really worth it..
23:43 < danvet_> did that solve our mail fun?
23:44 < robclark> well, that solved the mail issue for members..
23:44 < danvet_> do we have anything else?
23:44 < danvet_> on expo now I mean
23:44 < robclark> wiki still remains I think..  I guess I should double check w/ daniels to see if he moved it without me realizing..
23:44 < mupuf_> danvet_: btw, we do not need 3 weeks for everything, it is usually 2+2+2
23:45 < mupuf_> do we really want to push back everything by 2 weeks?
23:45 < danvet_> mupuf_, sounds good too
23:45 < danvet_> nah
23:45 < danvet_> but we can discuss those details again
23:45 < robclark> hmm, or actually foundation.x.org is on gabe too..
23:45 < danvet_> robclark, so we could in theory shut down expo?
23:45 < danvet_> can you pls confirm with daniels?
23:45 < mupuf_> and QA is actually one week normally
23:45 < mupuf_> so 2+1+2
23:45 < robclark> yeah, I'll double check..
23:45  * danvet_ has no clue about this stuff
23:46 < danvet_> mupuf_, you checked bylaws about that?
23:46 < danvet_> robclark, thx
23:46 < danvet_> what's our plan with expo btw?
23:46 < danvet_> # shutdown
23:46 < danvet_> then forget about it?
23:46 <+egbert> how do we switch dns?
23:47 < danvet_> oh right, x.org still points its ns at expo
23:47 < danvet_> egbert, or did you mean something else?
23:47 <+egbert> no. that was what i meant.
23:47 <+egbert> we need to get this domain thing sorted out.
23:47 < danvet_> yup
23:48 < mupuf_> danvet_: nothing in there, apparently
23:48 < danvet_> oh well, 2+2+2 seems reasonable imo
23:48 < mupuf_> we can make it 3+1+2
23:48 < danvet_> mupuf_, maybe double check that the last weekend isn't easter or something silly like that pls
23:48 < danvet_> that's imo the only reason
23:48 < mupuf_> 3 for nomination, 1 for QA, 2 for election
23:48 < mupuf_> oh, right, that would be bad!
23:48 < danvet_> mupuf_, 2 weeks is imo needed for candidates to unlazy and write an election blurb for themselves
23:49 < danvet_> speaking of experience ;-)
23:49 < mupuf_> danvet_: yep, hence why I updated it to 3 :D
23:49 < mupuf_> and 1 for QA
23:49 < danvet_> mupuf_, then maybe 1 more week to fully get election out of easter?
23:49 < mupuf_> ok, then 3 + 2 + 2
23:49 < danvet_> as a proposal at least
23:50 < danvet_> we'll suck anyway at this and extend ...
23:50 < danvet_> next up is evoc troubles I'd say
23:50 < danvet_> stukreit, anything new?
23:50 < danvet_> the she take the offer of splitting the transfer?
23:51 < robclark> danvet_, hmm, so I think BoD wiki is broken at the moment (since foundation.x.org now points at fd.o..)
23:51 < stukreit> I haven't done anything on it. thanks for the push
23:51 < robclark> (or at least https://foundation.x.org/bod/ -> internal server error)
23:53 < danvet_> stukreit, re the delaware filings, good enough if everyone just replies to you in private with the needed information?
23:54 < stukreit> yes. I have quite a few replies already, so thanks, folks
23:54 < danvet_> cool
23:54 < danvet_> I think despite election fun we've managed to get through ...
23:54 < danvet_> anything we've missed?
23:54 < stukreit> fyi GSOC has approved my invoice and is processing payment
23:54 < stukreit> (mentor stipends)
23:55 < mupuf_> danvet_: easter on on March 26th, we should be good!
23:55 < mupuf_> here we go: http://www.x.org/wiki/BoardOfDirectors/Elections/2016/?updated
23:56 < danvet_> mupuf_, you checked for any other holidays too?
23:56  * danvet_ has no clue about these things
23:56 < mupuf_> same here
23:56 < danvet_> us tends to be different a bit ...
23:56 < agd5f> lunar new year for asia first week of feb
23:56 < danvet_> agd5f, yeah, but that's still early enough
23:56 < danvet_> we only start for real on 22th Feb because spi
23:57 < mupuf_> there is the Hindi new year
23:57 < mupuf_> that's it
23:57 < danvet_> hm, new to me
23:57 < danvet_> when's that?
23:58 < mupuf_> Friday, Apr 08, 2016
23:58 < mupuf_> http://www.calendarlabs.com/hindu-calendar <-- all the religious holidays
23:58 < danvet_> well I guess they just need to vote before celebrating then ;-)
23:59 < danvet_> ok, I think that's it
23:59 < danvet_> thanks everyone!
23:59 <+egbert> right. thanks!
--- Day changed Fri Jan 22 2016
00:00 <+egbert> good night!
00:00 < robclark> thx, gn