Date is 2013-08-09, times are UTC+10.

--- Day changed Fri Aug 09 2013
07:05 < whot_> agenda for today: XDC paper reviews, GSoC updates, XDC misc. anyone have anything else?
07:05 < stukreit> yes, $$ and legal
07:05 < mupuf_> whot_: don't forget travel sponsoring
07:06 <+alanc> I assume XDC travel sponsoring falls into one of those
07:06 < whot_> oh, and after I read through the bylaws again this week: I'm supposed to send out the agenda before the meeting, do you want me to do this or rather not?
07:06 <+emmes> don't bother
07:06 <+alanc> someday we need to fix our bylaws to match reality
07:07 < mupuf_> whot_: don't bother
07:08 < whot_> ok. let's get started then. mupuf_ - XDC paper reviews?
07:08 < mupuf_> sure, so we got 10 proposals, all of them have been accepted
07:08 < mupuf_> Here is a complete list: http://www.x.org/wiki/Events/XDC2013/Program/*
07:09 < mupuf_> I'll send a mail to everyone to notify them
07:09 < stukreit> this is really great, guys!
07:09 < whot_> nice
07:09 < marcoz_> cool
07:09 <+alanc> URL works better without the * on the end
07:09 < mupuf_> we have a more detailled review in private, but we can make it public
07:09 < mupuf_> and some of us would like to send some comments on the proposals
07:10 < mupuf_> Appart from one or two, I find the proposals very solid
07:11 < mupuf_> Jerome's proposition is pending though, he is waiting for clearance to talk about this
07:11 < mupuf_> It seems like we'll find the same topics as last year
07:12 < mupuf_> And I'm also hopping keithp will add a talk about DRI3
07:12 < mupuf_> and kristian about wayland too
07:12 <+alanc> we did say this first deadline was for more formal talk proposals, with openings later for filling in the rest with less formalized talks
07:13 < mupuf_> indeed
07:13 < mupuf_> but having a dri3 whitepaper would be nice. Documentation has already been written, it would be a matter of putting everything together
07:14 < whot_> just nominate keithp for a talk then and see if he bails out :)
07:15 < mupuf_> Ah ah, he is also in the paper committee, so that would be weird
07:16 < mupuf_> Anyway, we basically have enough to fill one of the 3 days
07:16 <+alanc> oh, keithp is at GUADEC right now, isn't he?
07:16 <+alanc> that'd explain lack of attendance
07:16 < mupuf_> so, as usual, we should ping people left and right and ask them to give talks
07:17 <+alanc> anyways, I think this is the best collection of formal talks we've gotten submitted
07:17 < mupuf_> we can also schedule BoFs
07:17 <+alanc> don't remember ever having more than 2 or 3 before
07:17 < mupuf_> I agree, we have really solid talks in concrete projects
07:17 < mupuf_> on*
07:18 < mupuf_> As for the scheduling of the talks, we'll see later I guess
07:19 < mupuf_> and also, people submitting papers or white papers should be mandated to give a talk
07:20 <+emmes> ok, do we need a formal agreement from the board for the accepted papers? I don't think so, the agreement in the paper committee should be completely sufficient.
07:21 < whot_> i agree
07:21 <+alanc> right, I think leaving it to the paper committee is fine
07:22 < agd5f> yeah
07:22 <+emmes> anything else we need on the papers? I guess travel sponsorship is something we need to vote on in the board, because it involves foundation money.
07:23 <+alanc> right - I saw three sponsorship requests in there, which the board should vote on
07:23 <+alanc> the ones I saw were:
07:23 <+alanc> David Hermann: ~$1300
07:23 <+alanc> Matthias Hopf: ~$1000 + hotel
07:23 <+alanc> Martin Peres:  ~$1100 + hotel
07:25 < whot_> +1 from me
07:25 <+emmes> For the record: I could share my hotel room if it helps anybody who's on a tight budget
07:25 <+alanc> given the $80/night hotel room, assume $240-$320 for hotel depending on schedule
07:25 <+emmes> (or if the foundation is on a tight budget)
07:25 < stukreit> we have $68K remaining
07:26  * mupuf_ cannot really vote on this
07:26 <+alanc> so ~$4k for travel seems reasonable
07:26 <+alanc> +1 from me
07:26 < marcoz_> +1 
07:26 < stukreit> absolutely within reason
07:26 < stukreit> +1
07:26 <+emmes> +1 (except my own proposal off course)
07:27 < whot_> ok, we have a majority, vote carried
07:27 < mupuf_> +1 (except my own proposal of course)
07:27 < agd5f> +1
07:27 <+alanc> I assume you're both abstaining on your proposals, not voting against them
07:28 < whot_> I'll send out an email to david, I suspect emmes and mupuf_ won't need one I hope :)
07:28 <+emmes> sure :-P
07:28 < mupuf_> whot_: :)
07:28 <+emmes> whot_: lol
07:28 <+alanc> don't forget to bring receipts to the conference if you want Stuart to hand you a check there
07:29 <+emmes> yes, thanks for the reminder
07:29 < stukreit> Yes, Actually, scan your receipts and email to me asap, and you're off the hook
07:29 < mupuf_> stukreit: I only have only receipts, do I mail that?
07:30 < stukreit> Get a free scan app for your phone ...
07:30 < mupuf_> online*
07:30 < stukreit> fine, you're there already. email all in 1 message.
07:30 < mupuf_> great, thanks
07:31 < stukreit> I will try to do the reimbursements 100% non-paper this time.
07:31 <+emmes> awesome
07:31 < mupuf_> oh, that's sweet. Last time my bank went crazy when I showed them a check in dollars :D
07:31 < mupuf_> same happened with canadian dollars
07:31 < stukreit> I need to dig up the page detailing all info needed for wire transfers. yes, we need to stop using the physical mails
07:32 < whot_> ok, I think travel sponsorship is done? stukreit want to move on to $$?
07:32 <+emmes> you just need iban/bic, bank name and account name
07:32 < stukreit> I remember teething pains with this last year
07:33 <+emmes> ok, something to deal with later. I think we can move on.
07:33 < stukreit> ok, I've gotten into gear repairing the problem with 501(c)(3) and hsbc account.
07:33 < mupuf_> at least, you can make all the transfers together
07:33 < agd5f> stukreit: any news on setting up xorg as a vendor gsoc money?
07:33 < agd5f> *for
07:34 < stukreit> as you recall, I blew the deadline to file tax returns "form 990", partly because SFLC had no incoming mail from the IRS with warnings or info.
07:34 < stukreit> agd: I'll get to that..
07:34 < stukreit> so, I'm back in contact with sflc. We've gone through 3 changes of attorneys, and now Eben (the founder/pres) is helping us directly.
07:35 < stukreit> I'm having a concall with him tomorrow, and he sent me a tarball of all their filing info and intermediate stuff related to our 501(c)(3), so I have something to mark up and hopefully they have < 2% effort to proofread and submit
07:36 < stukreit> I managed to file a 990-N ("postcard form return") with the help of an IRS agent on the phone.
07:37 < whot_> sorry, how does the 990, the 501c3 and hsbc tie together again?
07:37 < stukreit> It failed the first time because of our ambiguous status, but I asked for explanation/help, and they worked it out.   Apparently the IRS is trying to buff their customer friendly image especially wrt 501(c)(3) apps, for well known timely reasons.
07:38 < stukreit> the 501c3 got retracted because I failed to submit 3 years of tax returns. Actually, those returns turn out to be quite simple because we have zero income, only expenses.
07:38 < stukreit> the 990 is a 2012 submission. I need to file 2011 and 2010, but haven't figured out/asked how yet.
07:38 < whot_> and hscb closed the account because of the 501c3 retraction?
07:39 < stukreit> Separately, but complicatedly, HSBC zapped our checking account. Here's what happened:
07:40 < stukreit> They have been charging us $29/month and up (depending on activity) "analysis fee".   In the past, when the checking account went neg, they've automatically pulled the amount from the savings account. I have 3 paper notifications of this happening.
07:41 < stukreit> However, in July, they decided that wasn't cool and silently waived the charge and closed the checking.  I only found out because after logging in online and being unable to get to the checking
07:41 < stukreit> (to in fact, push some money there), I went to the branch here in Palo Alto and found out all.
07:42 < stukreit> this is getting long... I will either open a new checking account/savings account from this branch in PA, or find another bank (the earlier plan was to get the hell away from hsbc).  
07:43 < stukreit> but this week I'm focused on getting materials over to sflc.
07:44 <+alanc> yeah, I thought the plan last year was to flee HSBC
07:44 < stukreit> and, does anyone have a recommended bank to go to?
07:45 <+emmes> i have no idea about american banks. here in Europe people flee if the bank charges anything at all...
07:45 < mupuf_> Well, we need to look into international banks, to ease transfers
07:45 < marcoz_> I'm a fan of credit unions, but they don't have the best returns.
07:45 < stukreit> And a question about gsoc:  Can they simply send the money to the individual participants? Has anyone talked to gsoc before?
07:46 < mupuf_> stukreit: no, they send a credit card to the student
07:46 < stukreit> um, hsbc is not American. Is it european?
07:46 < mupuf_> and the student uses it the way he wants
07:46 <+alanc> stukreit: they send money to the students and then give the sponsoring org money too
07:46 < stukreit> ok, so can you send a doc that describes what/how/when our org gets our money?
07:47 <+alanc> which we can use for mentor stipends, underwriting things like our XDC travel coverage, or just general expenses
07:47 < stukreit> (why is this new to me, i thought we did a gsoc before)  Doesn't the mentor payment go as the student payment?
07:47 < mupuf_> alanc: how much does the organization get?
07:47 <+alanc> we should have been getting $500 / student we mentored every year, but I think we always failed at paperwork
07:48 < agd5f> yeah, that's pretty much the deal
07:48 < stukreit> apologies, but I was not watching this before. Hey! maybe I'll find the old moneys.
07:48 < mupuf_> Dylan may ask for travel sponsorship, but he needs to submit a talk first
07:48 <+alanc> https://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2013/help_page#1._How_do_payments_work
07:48 < stukreit> is that $500 the mentor's payment?
07:48 <+alanc> "Google will provide a total stipend of 5500 USD per accepted student developer, of which 5000 USD goes to the student and 500 USD goes to the mentoring organization."
07:49 < agd5f> also if anyone wants to go to the gsoc mentor summit, the deadline is close (google will pay for 1-2 per org)
07:49 <+alanc> we get $500. what we do with it is up to us
07:49 < stukreit> so... can someone send me a list of completed gsoc gigs, I'll see if they'll still pay up.
07:49 <+alanc> we also should have gotten reimbursements in the past for mentoring summit travel expenses for sending Bart, Donnie, etal.
07:50 < agd5f> marcheu may know about the money from previous years since he ran it last
07:50 < stukreit> alanc: are you the most knowledgable on this topic? we can get it organized after the call
07:50 <+alanc> no, agd5f or marcheu know more
07:51 <+alanc> I may still have some old mails on it
07:51 < stukreit> k. I'll ask him. But I have enough confusing stuff to learn already.
07:51 < agd5f> to get the mentor money, you have to sign up as a google supplier or use one of the 3rd party organizations
07:52 < stukreit> I talked a bit to sfconservatory, and will have a longer call with them next week.  It makes no sense for us to "use one of the 3rd party organizations"
07:52 < marcheu> agd5f: last years the money was put on the HSBC account, wherever that is
07:52 < agd5f> ok
07:53 < stukreit> because we have our own 501c3 (except not right this minute)
07:53 < marcheu> yes you should use the 501c3
07:53 <+alanc> so we should have already been signed up as a supplier last year
07:53 < marcheu> otherwise IRS will look at you closely
07:53 < stukreit> just keep in mind that  it is lapsed at the moment.  
07:53 < agd5f> yes, but marcheu used his address because xorg didn't have one
07:53 < agd5f> so we need to sign up again
07:54 < marcheu> agd5f: technically I used my name, the HSBC bank # and the SFLC's address...
07:54 < stukreit> unless someone has good info to send me, I'll have to contact gsoc and ask the stupid questions "hey, are we in your database?"
07:54 < marcheu> agd5f: since I'm a US resident, I don't want to use my name any more, because IRS
07:54 <+alanc> I thought someone sent you the form already
07:54 < stukreit> I don't feel comfortable using sflc's address anymore. 
07:54 < marcheu> however, someone who isn't a US resident wouldn't care
07:54 < agd5f> stukreit, I can forward you the info from google again on how to sign up as a supplier
07:55 < stukreit> because they have changed personnel, and have lost important warnings that would have saved us grief
07:55 < stukreit> agd5f: yes please
07:55 < marcheu> stukreit: I don't think they'll snail-mail you anything, so SFLC or not doesn't matter much
07:55 < agd5f> stukreit, done
07:56 < agd5f> stukreit, I can help sign up, I just need to know what address and bank info to use
07:57 < stukreit> we still have the savings account active, and I may just setup a new checking account to get past the next XDC
07:58  * mupuf_ thinks the american banking system is way to complicated :D
07:58 < mupuf_> too*
07:58 < stukreit> after tomorrow's talk with Eben Moglin, I'll know whether to use sflc's address
07:58 < whot_> yeah, I think we should schedule some time at xdc so you can clarify this to us non-US ppl
07:59 < stukreit> mupuf:  we're talking about hsbc. Its not an american bank
07:59 < mupuf_> stukreit: sure, but checking, saving, and the third obscure one are confusing
07:59 < stukreit> whot: yes, schedule 45 min for Board talky
07:59 < marcheu> mupuf_: not really... "compte cheques", "livret A"
08:00 < stukreit> I don't mean to imply there's a "third obscure account". there are only 2 we're interested in
08:00 <+alanc> we should have board talk to members, but can also schedule some just in-person discussion time
08:00 < mupuf_> marcheu: I see. So, all accounts are linked to the same card.... interesting
08:01 < marcheu> mupuf_: yup... you just tell the ATM where to deposit/draw from
08:01 < mupuf_> marcheu: ack, thanks
08:02 < stukreit> speaking of which, I must remember to ask hsbc which acct our ATM card is attached to..
08:02 <+alanc> hmm, I always thought of HSBC as a UK bank, but wikipedia says it was originally the "Hongkong and Shanghai Banking Corporation" before moving to the UK
08:02 < stukreit> whiew, glad I didn't call it European ;-)
08:02 < stukreit> Their website is the product of deranged minds
08:03 < mupuf_> ok, so, can we move to the GSoC students?
08:03 < stukreit> yes, I will continue my homework on this.
08:04 < mupuf_> ok, great. Sorry whot_ for rushing things a little
08:04 < whot_> that's fine, I was just about to move things on anyway
08:04 < mupuf_> so, for the GSoC, we had 4 students
08:04 < whot_> stukreit: need you afterwards to clarify a few things for the meetings so I don't sum up something wrongly
08:04 < mupuf_> 1 of them bailed out
08:04 < mupuf_> the one on XV
08:05 < mupuf_> the others all passed
08:06 < agd5f> what was especially annoying is that he told us he wanted to quit and I asked him "are you really sure? 'cause once it's done, it's done" and he said yes
08:06 < mupuf_> I sent a mail to the board with a more detailed evaluation of each student
08:06 < agd5f> then when he saw that he failed, he asked if he could be unfailed and continue the project
08:07 < agd5f> water under a bridge
08:07 < stukreit> oh, the first part sounds very mature, the second part, whoops!
08:07 < mupuf_> agd5f: was he expecting to get money and not working?
08:07 < mupuf_> ahuillet got pissed about this student
08:09 < agd5f> mupuf_, I guess he decided he wanted to continue working on the gsoc project after he told us he wanted to drop out.
08:10 < stukreit> who is going to the mentor summit. (hint, I'd like to drop in, its close by)
08:11 < mupuf_> this is out of question for me. After the XDC, I will have crossed the pond 6 times this year
08:11 < stukreit> nice. gimme your airline miles
08:11 < agd5f> stukreit, no one has expressed interest so far
08:12  * mupuf_ should get a miles card
08:12 < marcheu> agd5f: sync up with donnie if no one does -- I think he's always interested in a spot
08:13 < agd5f> marcheu, ok
08:14 < stukreit> I guess I'll sign up then
08:15 < whot_> we're running a bit over time and the last item I had was misc XDC stuff (e.g. confirmed hotel rate) but since keithp isn't here we'll probably have to leave that out. I'll send him an email for that
08:16 < whot_> anyone got any further items?
08:18 <+alanc> not me
08:18 < stukreit> -1
08:18 < agd5f> I'm all set
08:19 <+emmes> nothing from my side
08:19 < whot_> ok, calling it closed for today. see you guys in two weeks