Date is 2012-07-19, times are UTC+02.

23:01 <+alanc> good afternoon
23:01 <+Bart_Massey> Greetings.
23:01 <+Bart_Massey> What business do we have to transact today?
23:01 <+keithp> hola
23:01 <stukreit> hi
23:02 <+Bart_Massey> I've got one set of agenda items, related to the Bylaws
23:02 <+Bart_Massey> Is anything else pressing?
23:02 <stukreit> do we need to approve alan's message re. 501(c)3 announcement?
23:02 <+anholt> switching rooms
23:03 <+alanc> all the mail I got seemed to be in favor of it, I was just going to see if I could post the required public disclosure stuff that Aaron forwarded and stick the URL in, then post
23:03 <+keithp> sounds good to me
23:03 <+emmes> hey all
23:04 <+emmes> i'm online via phone only, so i might drop off silently...
23:04 <+Bart_Massey> I'm not seeing this email
23:04 <+Bart_Massey> when was it sent?
23:04 <marcoz> hi all. sorryIm' late
23:05 <+alanc> which e-mail?   the announcement?
23:05 <+Bart_Massey> Yeah.
23:06 <+alanc> Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2012 19:33:00 -0700
23:06 <+alanc> From: Alan Coopersmith <>
23:06 <+alanc> Subject: Draft press release for X.Org 501(c)(3) status
23:06 <+Bart_Massey> Found it, thanks
23:07 <+emmes> yes that one - looked very good to me
23:07 <+Bart_Massey> Yeah, looks good to me also. Let's do it.
23:07 <+Bart_Massey> Has someone put the documents up?
23:07 <+Bart_Massey> Anyone opposed to any of this?
23:08 <+Bart_Massey> Hearing no opposition, the motion is carried. Thanks much, alanc!
23:09 <+alanc> looks like I don't have privs to make a new directory under /srv/ - probably need anholt or keithp to help - I was thinking /foundation/ so it would appear as
23:09 <+Bart_Massey> Sigh. We really need to sort wiki privs rsn.
23:09 <+keithp> alanc: I wonder if that would actually work :-)
23:09 <+alanc> seems to work for /archives/ and /videos/
23:09 <+Bart_Massey> The one very small edit I would make to the announcement is to capitalize "Foundation" throughout....
23:10 <+alanc> not sure if those needed httpd configuration though
23:10 <+Bart_Massey> Are we good on all this?
23:10 <+alanc> Bart_Massey: will capitalize
23:11 <+Bart_Massey> tx
23:11 <+Bart_Massey> Next up: I've been reading the Bylaws carefully to see what we might want to change. I've discovered some "interesting" things.
23:11 <agd5f> hi, sorry I'm late
23:11 <+keithp> alanc: give it a shot
23:11 <+keithp> (foundation dir created)
23:12 <+Bart_Massey> Perhaps the most relevant is around Annual Meetings
23:12 <+keithp> provides a nice directory list at present
23:12 <+Bart_Massey> Perhaps all of you knew all this, but it was news to me:
23:13 <+Bart_Massey> There are supposed to be two Annual Meetings: An Annual Meeting of the Board and an Annual Meeting of the Members. To transact business at the Members meeting, there must be a quorum of the Membership.
23:13 <+Bart_Massey> Further, voting for business at the Members meeting is required to be electronic under the current Bylaws (?!)
23:14 <+Bart_Massey> So it looks like holding an IRC meeting, separate from XDC, is the only reasonable way to run the Members meeting if we actually want to transact business?
23:14 <+Bart_Massey> In particular, if we want to change the Bylaws.
23:14 <+alanc> right, my reading was the members meeting was purely online and the voting was via our web ballot system
23:14 <+alanc> which I think is how we voted on bylaws last time, as part of a board election
23:15 <+Bart_Massey> OK. What this tells me, then, is that there's no real deadline tying any proposed Bylaws changes to XDC, which is good.
23:15 <+Bart_Massey> XDC can still be the Annual Meeting of the Board.
23:15 <+alanc> keithp: thanks, seems to work, copying docs into place now
23:15 <+Bart_Massey> But we are really supposed to hold an Annual Members Meeting every year.
23:15 <+Bart_Massey> (Whether we have business or not.)
23:16 <+Bart_Massey> There's some other interesting stuff, but I'll pack that into an email and send it later.
23:17 <+Bart_Massey> Just wanted everyone to know where I was with this stuff. 
23:17 <+alanc> well, electing the board is always business for the annual meeting
23:17 <+Bart_Massey> When does everyone want to hold the Annual Meeting of Members?
23:17 <+alanc> we've just not been that formal about doing calling it a meeting instead of just an election
23:18 <+Bart_Massey> We are supposed to announce it 21 days in advance, and IMHO it would be wise to do it before elections.
23:18 <+Bart_Massey> alanc: I'm not so sure that under the current Bylaws the Election can count as the Annual Meeting of Members. Is that what we've been relying on in the past?
23:18 <+alanc> btw, there were already a couple e-mails on this in the "Bylaws Review" thread also starting Sunday evening
23:19 <+alanc> Bart_Massey: well, I think we've mostly ignored that in the past, I was just trying to hand wave us into compliance after the fact
23:20 <+Bart_Massey> Fair enough. :-)
23:20 <+Bart_Massey> I think the best plan is to come into compliance now and actually schedule a special Annual Meeting of Members on IRC.
23:20  * Bart_Massey s/special//
23:21 <+Bart_Massey> As the Bylaws are currently drafted, I don't think the Members can actually vote any business at the Meeting :-), but we can say we had one.
23:21 <+alanc> okay - I know some other open source groups do similar - have a channel open for a few days so that people can come & go as time zones/schedules allow
23:22 <+Bart_Massey> Thanks for the Bylaws Review thread, BTW. Sorry I'm missing so much email.
23:22 <+Bart_Massey> OK, I'll schedule it RSN and we can announce it. I'm guessing mid-August will be good?
23:22 <+Bart_Massey> (well, late August: 21 days notice)
23:23 <+Bart_Massey> Not hearing any objections, I'll work on that plan then. We'll try to get Bylaws changes together to be voted together with the next Election in January or February.
23:24 <+Bart_Massey> Let's take the rest of this to email, unless someone has specific things they think we need to talk about?
23:25 <agd5f> sounds good to me
23:25 <+alanc> +1
23:25 <agd5f> +1
23:26 <marcoz> +1
23:26 <+Bart_Massey> OK. I have no other business. Anyone?
23:26 <marcoz> EVoC
23:26 <+Bart_Massey> marcoz: Go
23:26 <marcoz> I'll type this up more formally and send to everyone, but here's summary:
23:26 <marcoz> Tom reports Blaz gets a pass
23:27 <marcoz> This is mid-point reviews
23:27 <marcoz> (the students are at their midpoints in there projects )
23:27 <marcoz> Martin reports Supreet gets a pass
23:27 <marcoz> Jeremy just got back from his honeymoon so haven't gotten Jess' review yet; he doesn't get a mid-point payment though so not as urgent
23:27 <marcoz> Ashwin, however, has had some problems. 
23:27 <marcoz> In the hospital with food poisoning for 2 weeks.
23:27 <+Bart_Massey> Ow. 
23:28 <marcoz> plus problems with his university. apparently they didn't like him working on EVoC instead of getting a 'real' job.
23:28 <marcoz> so he's behind
23:28 <marcoz> mupuf: you there?
23:28 <marcoz> he's been offline a lot too; Martin reports he's been somewhat difficult to get ahold of.
23:28 <+Bart_Massey> Why does the university care / get to say? odd
23:28 <marcoz> connection problems are partly to blame
23:29 <marcoz> no idea.
23:29 <marcoz> I'm hoping mupuf is online
23:29 <+Bart_Massey> OK, it sounds like marcoz and mupuf and Ashwin need to sort this out.
23:29 <stukreit> I'm on the google forum, reading lots of debates on how to handle unforeseen issues with students. good stuff
23:29 <+Bart_Massey> I think the Board is going to be fine with anything that the Mentor and marcoz agree on.
23:30 <marcoz> ok.  2 of the students are doing well and get passes from their mentors
23:30 <+Bart_Massey> stukreit: Yeah, they deal with far worse, and have way more bureaucracy in the process.
23:30 <+Bart_Massey> Not a lot, mind you, but way more. :-)
23:30 <marcoz> should I write it up officially before we approve payments to those two or ... ?
23:31 <+Bart_Massey> Thanks for the summary. Let us know if there's some way to help with Ashwin.
23:31 <marcoz> will do.   
23:31 <+Bart_Massey> Move to approve payments to Blaz and Supreet
23:31 <mupuf> marcoz: yes
23:31 <mupuf> sorry, missed the begining
23:31 <marcoz> i propose pushing Ashwin's midpoint review back a couple weeks.
23:32 <+Bart_Massey> mupuf, marcoz: please hold a sec
23:32 <agd5f> Bart_Massey: +1 on approving Blaz and Supreet
23:32 <+Bart_Massey> Board: Can I get votes on the motion to approve payments?
23:32 <+Bart_Massey> agd5f: thanks
23:33 <stukreit> Someone please write in the payments amounts in this record..
23:33 <+Bart_Massey> marcoz: Do you have the payment amounts handy?
23:33 <marcoz> USD2000
23:33 <+Bart_Massey> For both?
23:33 <marcoz> supreet definitely.
23:34 <marcoz> i'm looking for blaz to verify. I apparently didn't put it on that page
23:36 <stukreit> bart: yes, its $2000 per participant when they pass the midterm eval
23:36 <marcoz> blaz also USD2000
23:36 <+Bart_Massey> marcoz, stukreit: Thanks
23:36 <+Bart_Massey> So, we have a motion pending. Can we get three more +1s from the Board?
23:37 <stukreit> +1
23:37 <+alanc> +1 on approving USD2000 mid-term payments for Blaz & Supreet
23:37 <+Bart_Massey> marcoz: ?
23:37 <marcoz> (I'd prefer not to vote on these. stay neutral.)
23:37 <+Bart_Massey> marcoz: There's no reason for you not to vote on them, and keithp and others seem to be asleep :-)
23:37 <marcoz> (unless there's noone else.)
23:38 <+keithp> Bart_Massey: +1 from me :-)
23:38 <+Bart_Massey> There we are.
23:38  * keithp is multi-tasking
23:38 <+Bart_Massey> :-)
23:38 <+Bart_Massey> Motion is carried.
23:38 <stukreit> retroactively... do we want 25 words from each mentor re. midterm eval?
23:38 <marcoz> (I'd prefer not to vote because I"m the coordinator.  maybe I'm weird.)
23:39 <stukreit> marcoz: see above
23:39 <+Bart_Massey> marcoz: Not "weird", but yeah, there's no reason not to vote, I think
23:39 <+Bart_Massey> stukreit: That would be nice
23:39 <marcoz> i have 3 of the 4 of those evals.
23:39 <marcoz> just waiting on Jeremy. He was on his honeymoon
23:39 <+Bart_Massey> Move that future payments be authorized by the Board to be made without a vote of the Board, at the discretion of the Coordinator.
23:40 <+keithp> I'm ok with voting; makes sure we're all aware of progress
23:40 <stukreit> ok, then where will we read them? email or posted publicly (I assume email)
23:40 <marcoz> not sure I want that responsibility. I already stress about this stuff
23:40 <+Bart_Massey> OK, motion is withdrawn based on objections
23:40 <marcoz> stukreit: I can sned one at a time or in digest when I get Jess' from Jeremy.  ?
23:40 <+Bart_Massey> If we keep getting EVoC students at this rate, it's going to get time-consuming, though :-)
23:40 <stukreit> marcoz: sounds like you're good for this role. we want someone who cares too much
23:41 <+Bart_Massey> marcoz: Send 'em as you get 'em, I think.
23:41 <marcoz> 1 vote for as I get them.  anyone else?
23:41 <stukreit> m: I'd prefer to receive all in one doc. easier to track
23:41 <marcoz> stukreit: btw, we have another proposal in the works.  ;)
23:41 <+Bart_Massey> I'm shocked.
23:42 <stukreit> i'll push a little harder then: It also encourages the last person to get r done
23:42 <marcoz> Bart_Massey: : pleasantly I hope.
23:42 <marcoz> stukreit: I'll ping jeremy
23:42 <+Bart_Massey> Sarcastically, mostly :-)
23:42 <marcheu> so this time can we require at least one patch in one of the fd.o repos before taking the students in?
23:42 <marcoz> lol
23:42 <+Bart_Massey> This program is pretty clearly taking off.
23:42 <marcheu> last time was too late, but this time is not too late right :)
23:42 <mupuf> marcheu: yeah, that would be a good thing :)
23:43 <marcoz> does the patch need to be accepted or just submitteed and in their queue/ML?
23:43 <marcheu> I'd say accepted, or rejected on unrelated grounds
23:43 <+Bart_Massey> marcheu: I think it should be either a patch or some other evidence of student readiness
23:43 <marcheu> yeah, but "one patch" is an easily defined entity
23:43 <+Bart_Massey> I don't see that we've had a problem with the actual coding of any of the students so far?
23:44 <marcheu> IMO it's more about commitment than coding
23:44 <stukreit> marcoz: do we have the name of the schools that each evoc'r attends?
23:44 <mupuf> Bart_Massey: not really, but some things take time. Sending a patch means the student has the right state of mind and understands what he is doing
23:44 <marcoz> stukreit: good question.
23:44 <+Bart_Massey> I just think that making people jump through arbitrary hoops is only a good idea if we have a lot of unready applicants.
23:44 <+Bart_Massey> \So far, I haven't seen that.
23:45 <marcoz> I think most of the students yes, possibly not all.  I'll have to run that down.
23:45 <+Bart_Massey> Anyway, if the rest of the Board thinks that a patch requirement is a good thing, obviously I won't try to get in the way.
23:45 <stukreit> eg. ken philips communicates thru a gmail account. what's up with that?
23:45 <+Bart_Massey> stukreit: Perhaps you haven't experience a modern University email system? :-)
23:45 <marcoz> you'd prefer ?
23:46 <+Bart_Massey> But yeah, we definitely need to have a firm record of the student status of everybody.
23:46 <+Bart_Massey> If somebody not actually a student slipped by, it would be...bad.
23:46 <marcoz> i'll run down the unis and get that added to the info page
23:46 <+Bart_Massey> marcoz: Thanks
23:46 <marcoz> Bart_Massey: np
23:46 <marcheu> stukreit: yeah as the owner of a UC email account, I can explain why you wouldn't want to use it :)
23:47 <stukreit> explain it offline. but I am interested. 
23:47 <mupuf> Could we discuss this EVoC program at the XDC? I already proposed a talk and I feel like we should define a little more what we expect and how we track progress and so on.
23:47 <+Bart_Massey> mupuf: Heck yes.
23:47 <mupuf> I am willing to prepare the framework of an eventual discussion
23:47 <mupuf> based on my RoE
23:48 <marcoz> The passing students get invites to XDC right?
23:48 <marcoz> and help with travel if needed.   They have to present their project I believe.
23:48 <+Bart_Massey> marcoz: Absolutely. Apparently from the email I just saw we're not requiring it, but they're encouraged.
23:49 <marcoz> Bart_Massey et al.  I'll officially invite Blaz and Supreet to XDC then?  
23:49 <+Bart_Massey> Yes, unless anyone has an objection?
23:49 <+Bart_Massey> Yes.
23:49 <marcoz> How does reimbursement of travel expenses (and hotel) work?
23:50 <agd5f> no objections here
23:50 <+Bart_Massey> marcoz: They submit an application for reimbursement (or imbursement, anyhow) to the Board, who votes it.
23:50 <+Bart_Massey> They are expected to be willing to fly cattle class and stay in reasonably-priced rooms :-)
23:51 <+Bart_Massey> The Board understands that travel from some places is way more expensive than from others.
23:51 <+Bart_Massey> Indeed, the Board is fully capable of using the web to find out how much travel costs should be. :-)
23:51 <marcoz> ;)
23:51 <+keithp> marcoz: *anyone* can come to xdc
23:52 <+Bart_Massey> And *anyone* can get travel expense help if they need it.
23:52 <+Bart_Massey> (and can make a reasonable case for it)
23:52 <mupuf> Bart_Massey: that's not what the wiki says
23:52 <+alanc> as I recall, we decided not to require students attend xdc because it overlaps with class schedules at some universities (like US schools on semester systems)
23:52 <marcoz> Bart_Massey: ahhhh,  _that_ part I didn't know.
23:52 <+Bart_Massey> mupuf: What does it say?
23:52 <mupuf> Bart_Massey: you need to present something :)
23:53 <marcoz> definitely not a requirement, but an official invite give you warm fuzzies.  ;)
23:53 <mupuf> Bart_Massey: curro isn't really looking forward to asking for funding because of this :D
23:53 <+Bart_Massey> mupuf: I definitely have things in mind
23:53 <+Bart_Massey> mupuf: Oh, wait nm
23:53 <+alanc> we can issue official invites to those who need them for visa purposes
23:54 <marcoz> keithp: so you're saying *anyone* reading this.  anyone at all can come in September?  *Everyone* is invited? (yes, I'm baiting the news rags.)
23:54 <+Bart_Massey> mupuf: Yeah, the normal case for travel funding is to present.
23:54 <+Bart_Massey> But it's really not very scary. I'm happy to talk to curro if you like :-)
23:54 <+Bart_Massey> We could put together some kind of panel or something for EVoC students if that reduced the social pressure...
23:54 <mupuf> Bart_Massey: no need to ;) He his checking his time schedule
23:55 <mupuf> many nouveau dev should come, that's quite an insentive to get even more of them :)
23:55 <+Bart_Massey> Anyway, we're running onto EOM. Any last-minute emergencies that can't wait for email or two weeks?
23:55 <marcoz> Bart_Massey: or just have them look at my presentation. that'll remove any pressure. ;)  i set that bar soo low. haha
23:55 <marcoz> CFP
23:56 <marcoz> Bart_Massey: should I just send that to the board for review so we can get it out?
23:56 <marcoz> (very quick review)
23:56 <marcoz> also stukreit: any luck with Blaz payment?
23:56 <+Bart_Massey> marcoz: Heck yes.
23:56 <stukreit> i'm on another call... I was working on it today and belive I have all the data to make it work
23:56 <marcoz> what about Ashwin's mid-point? push back til next meeting?
23:57 <+Bart_Massey> marcoz: Work it out with mupuf.
23:57 <marcoz> stukreit: thanks!
23:57 <marcoz> Bart_Massey: consider it done
23:57 <+Bart_Massey> OK, move to adjourn.
23:57 <agd5f> also, not the change the subject, but with all the HSBC news in the last fews days, I feel like we should look for a new bank.
23:57 <stukreit> so, yeah. my session will timeout but then I'll get back in and try to push it. ... when my stack shortens
23:57 <stukreit> me too
23:57 <+alanc> which we'd already discussed doing anyway
23:57 <stukreit> ]
23:57 <+alanc> back when it was less trendy
23:58 <+alanc>
23:58 <+alanc> we are officially listed on the IRS charity list now
23:58 <+Bart_Massey> keithp, stukreit, alanc: Please discuss and figure out what we should do about banking RSN?
23:58 <+Bart_Massey> (And whoever. I just know those three have been involved in the past.)
23:59 <+keithp> Bart_Massey: with stukreit acting as treasurer for an extended period, I'd say he should pick something he can get to reasonably easily. I know it's possible to do everything over the phone, at least in theory, sometimes just showing up and not leaving is powerful
00:00 <+Bart_Massey> keithp: Complete agreed. Point is, come to the Board with a recommendation and we'll all enthusiastically +1 it, I suspect
00:00 <+alanc> exists now, will be polished up and ready to announce shortly
00:00 <+Bart_Massey> alanc: THanks huge. And thanks much to all!
00:00 <+keithp> ok, I've got another mtg to get to anyways
00:00 <+keithp> have fun guys
00:00 <+Bart_Massey> I'm going to call this mtg on time. Talk to you all soon!