Date is 2012-05-24, times are UTC+02.
The word in*surance had to be crippled, because it's not allowed in the text due to anti-spamming rules.
23:00 <Bart_Massey> Hey all 23:00 <marcoz> hey bart 23:00 <mupuf> Hi everyone 23:01 <alanc> hello 23:01 <supreet> hey 23:01 <stukreit> hello 23:02 <marcoz> hi alanc stukreit 23:02 <Bart_Massey> I am sitting in a talk that starts in 15 minutes, so excuse me if I get distracted at that point. :-) 23:03 <Bart_Massey> IIRC the first agenda item is EVoC proposals and status. 23:03 <Bart_Massey> marcoz: want to summarize our status on the two proposals we have running at this point? 23:03 <marcoz> we have two of the proposal students here, ashwinravichandr and supreet . 23:04 <marcoz> for Nouveau. one is a monitoring proposal, the other is a reclocking scheme for newer cards. (mupuf correct me where I'm wrong) 23:04 <Bart_Massey> Cool: welcome! Do we have questions and concerns for the student and/or mentor? What do we still need to address? 23:04 <Bart_Massey> mupuf: Are these separate work, or related? 23:04 <marcoz> separate but related. 23:04 <mupuf> they are related in the way both are needed to implement good dynamic reclocking 23:04 <marcoz> mupuf assures me they will not be working on the same thing. 23:04 <marcheu> can they get one patch into xorg before we accept them? we would have enforced the bar for SoC this year also 23:05 <Bart_Massey> I'm not sure there's anything left to patch in X.Org. 23:05 <Bart_Massey> LOL 23:05 <marcheu> ok, let's say one non-trivial patch in a freedesktop repo :) 23:06 <marcheu> (that said xorg has enough bugs for everyone IMO) 23:06 <Bart_Massey> Yes, some evidence of ability to navigate the patch process would be a 23:06 <Bart_Massey> plus. Past patches count, of cous 23:06 <alanc> there's plenty you could patch in X.Org, a bit less that's worth patching 23:06 <+emmes> hey all 23:06 <Bart_Massey> (er, of course) 23:06 <Bart_Massey> emmes: Welcome! 23:07 <alanc> certainly if they're proposing to change nouveau there should be plenty of opportunities to submit some sort of small patch there 23:07 <Bart_Massey> emmes: we're grilling mupuf's Nouveau EVoC proposers about their stuff 23:07 <mupuf> marcheu: well, I get your point. But isn't the EVoC about getting people in X.org? The first patch is really hard to come up with, let alone having it accepted 23:07 <marcheu> mupuf: yes, but the SoC/VoC program isn't about teaching programming 23:07 <mupuf> marcheu: right 23:07 <+emmes> yeah, just read the backlog 23:08 <Bart_Massey> The point is, it doesn't have to be anything epic: a two-line null pointer check or something probably suffices. 23:08 <mupuf> marcheu: I wouldn't mind enforcing this policy of getting at least one patch before they can start working on EVoC, but isn't it a little late to warn us about that? :s 23:08 <marcoz> would patches to nouveau count? 23:08 <Bart_Massey> For me, it's not about programming (presumed), but about navigating patches 23:08 <alanc> has there been board mail about these proposals that I've overlooked? (I'm still a bit in shock that the calendar popup said today's meeting was May 24 - I don't know where this month has gone) 23:08 <Bart_Massey> marcoz: yes 23:08 <Bart_Massey> alanc: a bit 23:09 <Bart_Massey> But this is the first time IIRC we've talked explicitly about the patch submission requirement. 23:09 <marcoz> alanc, there was a thread about ashwin's 23:09 <Bart_Massey> Honestly, I'm inclined to take mupuf's word on these two, but if others feel strongly I understand... 23:10 <alanc> hmm, I don't seem to see board mail at all in May, guess I'll have to ping mithrandir to see if there's a mail delivery problem 23:10 <+emmes> mupuf: you won't be on your own, if there's troubles. *some* sort if involvment in the project would be a good prerequisite from my side, though we haven't explicitly discussed this. 23:10 <mupuf> well, we could take some time before starting the EVoC to get some patches done 23:10 <+emmes> i'm undecided. there's a point that we didn't require this before. 23:10 <mupuf> I can definitely find some simple work around nouveau 23:10 <agd5f> AFAIK, GSOC has no patch requirement and we've never enforced that before 23:10 <Bart_Massey> If I were setting policy (and I'm not), I'd be inclined to take a mentor vouching for the student as a substitute for patches 23:10 <marcoz> it does seem a bit out of the blue to say 'oh btw, have you submitted any patches?' i'm not saying it's a bit requirement, but stating it at this point seems a bit 23:11 <Bart_Massey> agd5f: many GSoC projects require it, but certainly not all. 23:11 <Bart_Massey> I move we waive this requirement for these projects, and talk about it for future projects. 23:11 <+emmes> agd5f: I think in GSOC it depends on how the according mentors see it. but you're probably right. 23:11 <Bart_Massey> Votes? 23:11 <agd5f> I meant that google doesn't require it, but sure, the individual projects may have varying requirements 23:12 <+emmes> who actually analyzed the two proposals? i fail to remember :-] marcoz? 23:12 <marcoz> I wrote up a quick summary and emailed it to you guys on ashwin's 23:12 <alanc> my understanding is that the patch requirement is usually imposed on people the mentors don't already know, to weed out those who are not yet skilled enough to take on the task of contributing to open source 23:12 <Bart_Massey> alanc: agreed 23:13 <Bart_Massey> we have some Board votes (in favor) on Ashwin's. 23:13 <mupuf> we can do it if you want, that shouldn't be a problem 23:13 <alanc> so I'd also be agreeable to taking the vouching of a known mentor in it's place 23:13 <+emmes> marcoz: if you're pretty confident about the proposald (you know them best), I'm perfectly fine. 23:13 <mupuf> a small patch won't take too much time 23:13 <marcoz> I appended a very small comment about supreet onto that thread. 23:13 <Bart_Massey> I think we shouldn'\t require this at this stage on these proposals. 23:13 <Bart_Massey> I'm open to discussing future policy. 23:13 <marcoz> s/suprett/supreet's/ 23:14 <+emmes> yes, I think I remember. just want to be sure. 23:14 <mupuf> IIRC, you only gave money when some milestones were achieved, right? 23:14 <Bart_Massey> OK, so I have a motion on the table to waive the patch requirement. Votes? 23:14 <Bart_Massey> mupuf: No, like Google, we in principle award money up front as well 23:15 <mupuf> oh, ok. 23:15 <Bart_Massey> In practice, we've been slow with those checks, so yeah. :-) 23:15 * mupuf wonders where he read that 23:15 <+emmes> ok, I'm fine +1 23:15 <marcoz> emmes: I'm going off mupuf's past work. the proposal's have some details in them and there was a thread with the nouveau folks about it. 23:15 <+emmes> marcoz: perfectly valid. 23:15 <agd5f> I thought they pay was at the midpoint and end 23:15 <marcoz> +1 for waiving the patch requirement for these. 23:15 <agd5f> +1 23:15 <stukreit> +1 23:16 <Bart_Massey> We've voted different things for different people re payment schedule 23:16 <marcoz> there's another proposal from Jess VanDerwalker as well. 23:16 <Bart_Massey> marcoz: Yes 23:16 <marcoz> Jeremy is his mentor 23:16 <Bart_Massey> W/ Jamey Sharp 23:16 <marcoz> Bart_Massey: yes, 23:16 <+emmes> did we have enough votes by mail already? 23:16 <Bart_Massey> Need one more +1 on the patch requirement waiver 23:16 <alanc> +1 on the patch waiver 23:17 <Bart_Massey> emmes: no 23:17 <Bart_Massey> OK, so the patch thing is settled. I will make a note for us to discuss at future mtg 23:17 <marcoz> we need to update the wiki to reflect this new requirement (if it becomes a req) 23:17 <Bart_Massey> I propose we vote Ashwin and Jess's proposal today, as there has been a lot of email discussion on those 23:17 <Bart_Massey> marcoz: agreed 23:18 <Bart_Massey> I think we need to discuss supreet's a bit more and vote it by email this week? 23:18 <Bart_Massey> Thoughts? 23:19 <stukreit> Is there a paragraph writeup of the proposal? 23:19 <marcoz> ok, since they are all here, are there any questions for anyone regarding the proposals? 23:19 <Bart_Massey> stukreit: I know Ashwin's and Jess's are in email. 23:19 <marcoz> supreet: (that's your cue to put up a very short summary.) 23:20 <stukreit> aha, perhaps re-post it? 23:20 <supreet> I have written a summary 23:20 <supreet> but it is a little more than a paragraph 23:20 <supreet> i could do a pastebin 23:20 <Bart_Massey> Pastebin works 23:20 <marcoz> works for me. 23:20 <stukreit> good. Does it say what and why? 23:20 <supreet> yep 23:20 <supreet> everything 23:21 <Bart_Massey> Give us an URL please :-) 23:21 <supreet> http://paste.kde.org/486428/ 23:21 <marcoz> that's _way_ more than a paragraph 23:22 <stukreit> sounds like you've done your homework! 23:22 <supreet> I could tell you about it, right here 23:22 <supreet> I have :) 23:22 <supreet> depends on what exactly your concerns are 23:22 <supreet> I have been an open-source contributor 23:22 <+emmes> I remember the pains regarding reclocking with my first tries on R600 :-/ 23:23 <supreet> :D 23:23 <marcoz> he mentions documentationa. I think he's sucking up. haha 23:23 <mupuf> emmes: reclocking is already "implemented" 23:23 <mupuf> it is unsafe though 23:23 <supreet> though I won't get to work on reclocking as such 23:23 <Bart_Massey> I think we'd need a timeline and more detail in the proposed work. 23:23 <supreet> more on getting it on the way 23:23 <mupuf> and needs to be done from the card itself to be done safely 23:23 <mupuf> and tear-free 23:23 <Bart_Massey> Other than that, the proposal looks great. 23:24 <supreet> timeline and everything is in the proposal 23:24 <mupuf> Bart_Massey: didn't your receive the proposal? 23:24 <supreet> you can find it in the email 23:24 <+emmes> mupuf: in contrast to R600 you have access to microcode docs (due to rev.eng ;-) - we didn't :-P 23:24 <marcoz> Bart_Massey: that was the one I asked him to resend as pdf and txt. 23:24 <supreet> here is the link to it anyway 23:24 <supreet> https://docs.google.com/document/d/14_Iignvod0cayQcs28gbUT-8QiYaAKc-zTe1MKAE_sA/edit?pli=1 23:24 <Bart_Massey> oh, must have issed that; thanks 23:24 <+emmes> i'm all for it. looks reasonably written. +1 23:24 <agd5f> +! 23:24 <agd5f> +1 even 23:25 <Bart_Massey> +1 23:25 <stukreit> +1 23:25 <marcheu> mupuf: I don't know if it's late, I've never been told anything about it until I peeked at irc today 23:25 <+emmes> there was something about extending the existing framework in the kernel later on the mailing list, but I think that was about the other proposal regarding performance measurement. correct me if i'm wrong. 23:25 <marcheu> mupuf: had you asked me, I would've told you :) 23:26 <mupuf> marcheu: I'm sorry, I wondered if I should post this proposal to the nouveau ML, but I didn't want phoronix to have a news about this 23:26 <mupuf> and yeah, I'm really sorry, I kept you out of the loop. I should have thought about you. My bad... 23:27 <mupuf> especially since you already have experience with GSoC and I don't... 23:28 <marcoz> are these votes for all 3 proposals or for Supreet's? 23:28 <Bart_Massey> As a 13-week project, I move we fund Supreet's on the same schedule as Ashwin's. 23:28 <alanc> supreet's is the only one I've seen 23:28 <alanc> and that was when he pasted it just now 23:28 <Bart_Massey> I'm +1 on all three proposals. We have payment schedules for the other two already. 23:28 <alanc> so I'm not ready to vote on any of them 23:29 <Bart_Massey> alanc: Makes sense. Would you like to move to defer the vote? 23:29 <agd5f> I'm +1 on all of them as well 23:30 <alanc> no, I'm fine with the rest of you voting while I try to find where the mail is getting lost along the way 23:30 <agd5f> we shouldn't defer too long, it'll be June in a week 23:30 <Bart_Massey> OK, could we get votes on funding all three proposals? 23:30 <Bart_Massey> If you want to fail one, vote -1 and we'll break it down 23:30 <Bart_Massey> (or defer, not necessarily fail) 23:31 <+emmes> I have seen the other two proposals, I'm +1 on them as well 23:31 <Bart_Massey> all right, we're +3. Need votes from others 23:32 <Bart_Massey> Hey! 23:32 <Bart_Massey> anholt: we're voting the three EVoC proposals as a block. 23:32 <ashwinravichandr> this is the link to my proposal: https://docs.google.com/open?id=0Bz98yzQ_YF8aQTVLbWpWXy15VVE 23:32 <stukreit> I've only glanced at supreet's 23:32 <Bart_Massey> Have you seen them and are you prepared to +1? 23:33 <alanc> *sigh* Mithrandir found my mail problem - was still subscribed with my @sun.com address which was shut off in March 23:33 <marcoz> +1 23:33 <alanc> no wonder I haven't seen board mail in a while 23:33 <Bart_Massey> :-) 23:34 <marcoz> lol 23:34 <marcheu> alanc: use gmail! ;) 23:34 <+anholt> Bart_Massey: I think I've seen 2/3 23:34 <supreet> you probably missed mine so here is the link : https://docs.google.com/document/d/14_Iignvod0cayQcs28gbUT-8QiYaAKc-zTe1MKAE_sA/edit?pli=1 23:34 <alanc> I have a gmail address, but that's where stuff goes that I don't read since I hate the click back-and-forth interface 23:35 <Bart_Massey> alanc: you can easily forward your gmail 23:35 <mupuf> alanc: or use imap to access it 23:35 <marcoz> let's not get distracted here folks. :) 23:35 <Bart_Massey> :=-) 23:36 <Bart_Massey> We're at +4, so one more and we're good. I'll give it five more minutes, and then we'll table it for now and move on. 23:37 <stukreit> ashwin: Please explain how you will manage the conclusion of your college work in August and the start of this project in June or so. I suppose you have a load of final exams, papers, or projects at the end? 23:38 <ashwinravichandr> actually it's not like that. i just have graduation in august. 23:38 <ashwinravichandr> i am currently done with my courses and have to just wait for results. 23:39 <Bart_Massey> gratz! 23:39 <ashwinravichandr> which takes a lot of time in India especially in my University as we are an affiliated college to a central college. so, our results will take time. 23:39 <+anholt> so, I've seen supreet's and ashwin's, which is the other? 23:39 <Bart_Massey> Jesse VanDerWalker 23:40 <Bart_Massey> Working with Jeremy Huddleston and Jamey Sharp 23:41 <+anholt> I guess I lied. I've seen 3/3. +1 from me. 23:41 <Bart_Massey> OK. That's +5! 23:41 <Bart_Massey> Gratz to all. 23:41 * supreet celebrates 23:41 <ashwinravichandr> :) 23:42 <Bart_Massey> stukreit: please get contact informatoin from the mentors or students and cut first checks. 23:42 <mupuf> thanks, we'll get in touch with marcoz to know the procedure 23:42 <Bart_Massey> THanks huge. 23:43 <Bart_Massey> I think this is enough for one meeting; move to table remaining business for now and adjourn 23:43 <stukreit> k 23:44 <Bart_Massey> can I get some votes on that? any other urgent business to discuss? 23:44 <stukreit> oh concerning the next conference 23:44 <Bart_Massey> stukreit: go 23:44 <+emmes> ok fine. 23:45 <+emmes> just to note you guys: 23:45 <stukreit> I asked for details of deposits and monies, dates required, and mailingaddresses, pref. in one email to all the board 23:45 <+emmes> we do have a room reserved at the university for the book sprint. more about that on the next meeting in this case... 23:45 <Bart_Massey> stukreit: k marcoz can work with mentors to round that up 23:45 <Bart_Massey> emmes: epic thanks 23:46 <Bart_Massey> stukreit: oops 23:46 <Bart_Massey> nm you're talking about conference stuff 23:46 <stukreit> yes 23:47 <Bart_Massey> stukreit: Yes, this seems reasonable. The sooner we know what to do, the sooner we can write checks. 23:47 <+emmes> stukreit: about your mail: there's a good chance that the room will be for free. nobody asked for anything so far. 23:48 <stukreit> favorite answer. but please ask, and even if its free, we're probably all aligned to making a donation. 23:49 <+emmes> i know :-) but i keep my fingers crossed. 23:49 <Bart_Massey> k will let you folks work this out. gtg. thanks all! :-) 23:49 <alanc> or if like last year we need to buy a couple days worth of in*surance to indemnify the university 23:49 <+emmes> Bart_Massey: for next meeting there's one topic from my side: videos of the conference. I have news! 23:49 <alanc> (though hopefully being in Germany instead of US reduces that level of sillyness) 23:49 <stukreit> right-- and I don't know how to buy in*surance outside of the US 23:49 <Bart_Massey> emmes: Excellent! 23:50 <stukreit> So emmes: please do raise a question or 2 with them. 23:50 <marcoz> emmes: news?! 23:50 <+emmes> alanc: yes, there's by far no that big deal. 23:50 <+emmes> stukreit: i will. 23:50 <Bart_Massey> Bye all!