Date is 2012-05-24, times are UTC+02.

The word in*surance had to be crippled, because it's not allowed in the text due to anti-spamming rules.

23:00 <Bart_Massey> Hey all
23:00 <marcoz> hey bart
23:00 <mupuf> Hi everyone
23:01 <alanc> hello
23:01 <supreet> hey 
23:01 <stukreit> hello
23:02 <marcoz> hi alanc stukreit 
23:02 <Bart_Massey> I am sitting in a talk that starts in 15 minutes, so excuse me if I get distracted at that point. :-)
23:03 <Bart_Massey> IIRC the first agenda item is EVoC proposals and status. 
23:03 <Bart_Massey> marcoz: want to summarize our status on the two proposals we have running at this point?
23:03 <marcoz> we have two of the proposal students here,  ashwinravichandr  and supreet .
23:04 <marcoz> for Nouveau. one is a monitoring proposal, the other is a reclocking scheme for newer cards.  (mupuf correct me where I'm wrong)
23:04 <Bart_Massey> Cool: welcome! Do we have questions and concerns for the student and/or mentor? What do we still need to address?
23:04 <Bart_Massey> mupuf: Are these separate work, or related?
23:04 <marcoz> separate but related.
23:04 <mupuf> they are related in the way both are needed to implement good dynamic reclocking
23:04 <marcoz> mupuf assures me they will not be working on the same thing.
23:04 <marcheu> can they get one patch into xorg before we accept them? we would have enforced the bar for SoC this year also
23:05 <Bart_Massey> I'm not sure there's anything left to patch in X.Org. 
23:05 <Bart_Massey> LOL
23:05 <marcheu> ok, let's say one non-trivial patch in a freedesktop repo :)
23:06 <marcheu> (that said xorg has enough bugs for everyone IMO)
23:06 <Bart_Massey> Yes, some evidence of ability to navigate the patch process would be a
23:06 <Bart_Massey> plus. Past patches count, of cous
23:06 <alanc> there's plenty you could patch in X.Org, a bit less that's worth patching
23:06 <+emmes> hey all
23:06 <Bart_Massey> (er, of course)
23:06 <Bart_Massey> emmes: Welcome!
23:07 <alanc> certainly if they're proposing to change nouveau there should be plenty of opportunities to submit some sort of small patch there
23:07 <Bart_Massey> emmes: we're grilling mupuf's Nouveau EVoC proposers about their stuff
23:07 <mupuf> marcheu: well, I get your point. But isn't the EVoC about getting people in X.org? The first patch is really hard to come up with, let alone having it accepted
23:07 <marcheu> mupuf: yes, but the SoC/VoC program isn't about teaching programming
23:07 <mupuf> marcheu: right
23:07 <+emmes> yeah, just read the backlog
23:08 <Bart_Massey> The point is, it doesn't have to be anything epic: a two-line null pointer check or something probably suffices.
23:08 <mupuf> marcheu: I wouldn't mind enforcing this policy of getting at least one patch before they can start working on EVoC, but isn't it a little late to warn us about that? :s
23:08 <marcoz> would patches to nouveau count?
23:08 <Bart_Massey> For me, it's not about programming (presumed), but about navigating patches
23:08 <alanc> has there been board mail about these proposals that I've overlooked?   (I'm still a bit in shock that the calendar popup said today's meeting was May 24 - I don't know where this month has gone)
23:08 <Bart_Massey> marcoz: yes
23:08 <Bart_Massey> alanc: a bit
23:09 <Bart_Massey> But this is the first time IIRC we've talked explicitly about the patch submission requirement.
23:09 <marcoz> alanc,  there was a thread about ashwin's
23:09 <Bart_Massey> Honestly, I'm inclined to take mupuf's word on these two, but if others feel strongly I understand...
23:10 <alanc> hmm, I don't seem to see board mail at all in May, guess I'll have to ping mithrandir to see if there's a mail delivery problem
23:10 <+emmes> mupuf: you won't be on your own, if there's troubles. *some* sort if involvment in the project would be a good prerequisite from my side, though we haven't explicitly discussed this.
23:10 <mupuf> well, we could take some time before starting the EVoC to get some patches done
23:10 <+emmes> i'm undecided. there's a point that we didn't require this before.
23:10 <mupuf> I can definitely find some simple work around nouveau
23:10 <agd5f> AFAIK, GSOC has no patch requirement and we've never enforced that before
23:10 <Bart_Massey> If I were setting policy (and I'm not), I'd be inclined to take a mentor vouching for the student as a substitute for patches
23:10 <marcoz> it does seem a bit out of the blue to say 'oh btw, have you submitted any patches?'  i'm not saying it's a bit requirement, but stating it at this point seems a bit 
23:11 <Bart_Massey> agd5f: many GSoC projects require it, but certainly not all.
23:11 <Bart_Massey> I move we waive this requirement for these projects, and talk about it for future projects.
23:11 <+emmes> agd5f: I think in GSOC it depends on how the according mentors see it. but you're probably right.
23:11 <Bart_Massey> Votes?
23:11 <agd5f> I meant that google doesn't require it, but sure, the individual projects may have varying requirements
23:12 <+emmes> who actually analyzed the two proposals? i fail to remember :-] marcoz?
23:12 <marcoz> I wrote up a quick summary and emailed it to you guys on ashwin's
23:12 <alanc> my understanding is that the patch requirement is usually imposed on people the mentors don't already know, to weed out those who are not yet skilled enough to take on the task of contributing to open source
23:12 <Bart_Massey> alanc: agreed
23:13 <Bart_Massey> we have some Board votes (in favor) on Ashwin's.
23:13 <mupuf> we can do it if you want, that shouldn't be a problem
23:13 <alanc> so I'd also be agreeable to taking the vouching of a known mentor in it's place
23:13 <+emmes> marcoz: if you're pretty confident about the proposald (you know them best), I'm perfectly fine.
23:13 <mupuf> a small patch won't take too much time
23:13 <marcoz> I appended a very small comment about supreet onto that thread.
23:13 <Bart_Massey> I think we shouldn'\t require this at this stage on these proposals.
23:13 <Bart_Massey> I'm open to discussing future policy.
23:13 <marcoz> s/suprett/supreet's/
23:14 <+emmes> yes, I think I remember. just want to be sure.
23:14 <mupuf> IIRC, you only gave money when some milestones were achieved, right?
23:14 <Bart_Massey> OK, so I have a motion on the table to waive the patch requirement. Votes?
23:14 <Bart_Massey> mupuf: No, like Google, we in principle award money up front as well
23:15 <mupuf> oh, ok.
23:15 <Bart_Massey> In practice, we've been slow with those checks, so yeah. :-)
23:15  * mupuf wonders where he read that
23:15 <+emmes> ok, I'm fine +1
23:15 <marcoz> emmes: I'm going off mupuf's past work. the proposal's have some details in them and there was a thread with the nouveau folks about it.
23:15 <+emmes> marcoz: perfectly valid.
23:15 <agd5f> I thought they pay was at the midpoint and end
23:15 <marcoz> +1 for waiving the patch requirement for these.
23:15 <agd5f> +1
23:15 <stukreit> +1
23:16 <Bart_Massey> We've voted different things for different people re payment schedule
23:16 <marcoz> there's another proposal from Jess VanDerwalker as well.
23:16 <Bart_Massey> marcoz: Yes
23:16 <marcoz> Jeremy is his mentor
23:16 <Bart_Massey> W/ Jamey Sharp
23:16 <marcoz> Bart_Massey: yes,  
23:16 <+emmes> did we have enough votes by mail already?
23:16 <Bart_Massey> Need one more +1 on the patch requirement waiver
23:16 <alanc> +1 on the patch waiver
23:17 <Bart_Massey> emmes: no
23:17 <Bart_Massey> OK, so the patch thing is settled. I will make a note for us to discuss at future mtg
23:17 <marcoz> we need to update the wiki to reflect this new requirement (if it becomes a req)
23:17 <Bart_Massey> I propose we vote Ashwin and Jess's proposal today, as there has been a lot of email discussion on those
23:17 <Bart_Massey> marcoz: agreed
23:18 <Bart_Massey> I think we need to discuss supreet's a bit more and vote it by email this week?
23:18 <Bart_Massey> Thoughts?
23:19 <stukreit> Is there a paragraph writeup of the proposal?
23:19 <marcoz> ok,  since they are all here, are there any questions for anyone regarding the proposals?
23:19 <Bart_Massey> stukreit: I know Ashwin's and Jess's are in email.
23:19 <marcoz> supreet: (that's your cue to put up a very short summary.)
23:20 <stukreit> aha, perhaps re-post it?
23:20 <supreet> I have written a summary
23:20 <supreet> but it is a little more than a paragraph
23:20 <supreet> i could do a pastebin
23:20 <Bart_Massey> Pastebin works
23:20 <marcoz> works for me.
23:20 <stukreit> good. Does it say what and why?
23:20 <supreet> yep
23:20 <supreet> everything
23:21 <Bart_Massey> Give us an URL please :-)
23:21 <supreet> http://paste.kde.org/486428/
23:21 <marcoz> that's _way_ more than a paragraph
23:22 <stukreit> sounds like you've done your homework!
23:22 <supreet> I could tell you about it, right here
23:22 <supreet> I have :)
23:22 <supreet> depends on what exactly your concerns are
23:22 <supreet> I have been an open-source contributor
23:22 <+emmes> I remember the pains regarding reclocking with my first tries on R600 :-/
23:23 <supreet> :D
23:23 <marcoz> he mentions documentationa.  I think he's sucking up. haha
23:23 <mupuf> emmes: reclocking is already "implemented"
23:23 <mupuf> it is unsafe though
23:23 <supreet> though I won't get to work on reclocking as such
23:23 <Bart_Massey> I think we'd need a timeline and more detail in the proposed work.
23:23 <supreet> more on getting it on the way
23:23 <mupuf> and needs to be done from the card itself to be done safely
23:23 <mupuf> and tear-free
23:23 <Bart_Massey> Other than that, the proposal looks great.
23:24 <supreet> timeline and everything is in the proposal
23:24 <mupuf> Bart_Massey: didn't  your receive the proposal?
23:24 <supreet> you can find it in the email
23:24 <+emmes> mupuf: in contrast to R600 you have access to microcode docs (due to rev.eng ;-) - we didn't :-P
23:24 <marcoz> Bart_Massey: that was the one I asked him to resend as pdf and txt.
23:24 <supreet> here is the link to it anyway
23:24 <supreet> https://docs.google.com/document/d/14_Iignvod0cayQcs28gbUT-8QiYaAKc-zTe1MKAE_sA/edit?pli=1
23:24 <Bart_Massey> oh, must have issed that; thanks
23:24 <+emmes> i'm all for it. looks reasonably written. +1
23:24 <agd5f> +!
23:24 <agd5f> +1 even
23:25 <Bart_Massey> +1
23:25 <stukreit> +1
23:25 <marcheu> mupuf: I don't know if it's late, I've never been told anything about it until I peeked at irc today
23:25 <+emmes> there was something about extending the existing framework in the kernel later on the mailing list, but I think that was about the other proposal regarding performance measurement. correct me if i'm wrong.
23:25 <marcheu> mupuf: had you asked me, I would've told you :)
23:26 <mupuf> marcheu: I'm sorry, I wondered if I should post this proposal to the nouveau ML, but I didn't want phoronix to have a news about this
23:26 <mupuf> and yeah, I'm really sorry, I kept you out of the loop. I should have thought about you. My bad...
23:27 <mupuf> especially since you already have experience with GSoC and I don't...
23:28 <marcoz> are these votes for all 3 proposals or for Supreet's?
23:28 <Bart_Massey> As a 13-week project, I move we fund Supreet's on the same schedule as Ashwin's.
23:28 <alanc> supreet's is the only one I've seen
23:28 <alanc> and that was when he pasted it just now
23:28 <Bart_Massey> I'm +1 on all three proposals. We have payment schedules for the other two already.
23:28 <alanc> so I'm not ready to vote on any of them
23:29 <Bart_Massey> alanc: Makes sense. Would you like to move to defer the vote?
23:29 <agd5f> I'm +1 on all of them as well
23:30 <alanc> no, I'm fine with the rest of you voting while I try to find where the mail is getting lost along the way
23:30 <agd5f> we shouldn't defer too long, it'll be June in a week
23:30 <Bart_Massey> OK, could we get votes on funding all three proposals?
23:30 <Bart_Massey> If you want to fail one, vote -1 and we'll break it down
23:30 <Bart_Massey> (or defer, not necessarily fail)
23:31 <+emmes> I have seen the other two proposals, I'm +1 on them as well
23:31 <Bart_Massey> all right, we're +3. Need votes from others
23:32 <Bart_Massey> Hey!
23:32 <Bart_Massey> anholt: we're voting the three EVoC proposals as a block.
23:32 <ashwinravichandr> this is the link to my proposal: https://docs.google.com/open?id=0Bz98yzQ_YF8aQTVLbWpWXy15VVE
23:32 <stukreit> I've only glanced at supreet's
23:32 <Bart_Massey> Have you seen them and are you prepared to +1?
23:33 <alanc> *sigh*  Mithrandir found my mail problem - was still subscribed with my @sun.com address which was shut off in March
23:33 <marcoz> +1
23:33 <alanc> no wonder I haven't seen board mail in a while
23:33 <Bart_Massey> :-)
23:34 <marcoz> lol
23:34 <marcheu> alanc: use gmail! ;)
23:34 <+anholt> Bart_Massey: I think I've seen 2/3
23:34 <supreet> you probably missed mine so here is the link : https://docs.google.com/document/d/14_Iignvod0cayQcs28gbUT-8QiYaAKc-zTe1MKAE_sA/edit?pli=1
23:34 <alanc> I have a gmail address, but that's where stuff goes that I don't read since I hate the click back-and-forth interface
23:35 <Bart_Massey> alanc: you can easily forward your gmail
23:35 <mupuf> alanc: or use imap to access it
23:35 <marcoz> let's not get distracted here folks. :)
23:35 <Bart_Massey> :=-)
23:36 <Bart_Massey> We're at +4, so one more and we're good. I'll give it five more minutes, and then we'll table it for now and move on.
23:37 <stukreit> ashwin: Please explain how you will manage the conclusion of your college work in August and the start of this project in June or so. I suppose you have a load of final exams, papers, or projects at the end?
23:38 <ashwinravichandr> actually it's not like that. i just have graduation in august.
23:38 <ashwinravichandr> i am currently done with my courses and have to just wait for results.
23:39 <Bart_Massey> gratz!
23:39 <ashwinravichandr> which takes a lot of time in India especially in my University as we are an affiliated college to a central college. so, our results will take time. 
23:39 <+anholt> so, I've seen supreet's and ashwin's, which is the other?
23:39 <Bart_Massey> Jesse VanDerWalker
23:40 <Bart_Massey> Working with Jeremy Huddleston and Jamey Sharp
23:41 <+anholt> I guess I lied.  I've seen 3/3. +1 from me.
23:41 <Bart_Massey> OK. That's +5!
23:41 <Bart_Massey> Gratz to all. 
23:41  * supreet celebrates
23:41 <ashwinravichandr> :)
23:42 <Bart_Massey> stukreit: please get contact informatoin from the mentors or students and cut first checks.
23:42 <mupuf> thanks, we'll get in touch with marcoz to know the procedure
23:42 <Bart_Massey> THanks huge.
23:43 <Bart_Massey> I think this is enough for one meeting; move to table remaining business for now and adjourn
23:43 <stukreit> k
23:44 <Bart_Massey> can I get some votes on that? any other urgent business to discuss?
23:44 <stukreit> oh concerning the next conference
23:44 <Bart_Massey> stukreit: go
23:44 <+emmes> ok fine.
23:45 <+emmes> just to note you guys:
23:45 <stukreit> I asked for details of deposits and monies, dates required, and mailingaddresses, pref. in one email to all the board
23:45 <+emmes> we do have a room reserved at the university for the book sprint. more about that on the next meeting in this case...
23:45 <Bart_Massey> stukreit: k marcoz can work with mentors to round that up
23:45 <Bart_Massey> emmes: epic thanks
23:46 <Bart_Massey> stukreit: oops
23:46 <Bart_Massey> nm you're talking about conference stuff
23:46 <stukreit> yes
23:47 <Bart_Massey> stukreit: Yes, this seems reasonable. The sooner we know what to do, the sooner we can write checks.
23:47 <+emmes> stukreit: about your mail: there's a good chance that the room will be for free. nobody asked for anything so far.
23:48 <stukreit> favorite answer. but please ask, and even if its free, we're probably all aligned to making a donation.
23:49 <+emmes> i know :-) but i keep my fingers crossed.
23:49 <Bart_Massey> k will let you folks work this out. gtg. thanks all! :-)
23:49 <alanc> or if like last year we need to buy a couple days worth of in*surance to indemnify the university
23:49 <+emmes> Bart_Massey: for next meeting there's one topic from my side: videos of the conference. I have news!
23:49 <alanc> (though hopefully being in Germany instead of US reduces that level of sillyness)
23:49 <stukreit> right-- and I don't know how to buy in*surance outside of the US
23:49 <Bart_Massey> emmes: Excellent!
23:50 <stukreit> So emmes: please do raise a question or 2 with them.
23:50 <marcoz> emmes:   news?!
23:50 <+emmes> alanc: yes, there's by far no that big deal.
23:50 <+emmes> stukreit: i will.
23:50 <Bart_Massey> Bye all!